Return of Reckoning

desizt wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2020 8:13 pm

There were a lot of changes on live, so "live" in general doesn't mean much to begin with.

WH for an example was nerfed several times over the years.

The live version, where WE still had an armor debuff, should be old enough to qualify as "it always had 30sec cd" even if it might have been different on release, which I doubt.

Darks63 wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2020 8:21 pm

wachlarz wrote: Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:37 am

popperz wrote: Mon Jan 27, 2020 6:38 am Dev's could consider:

• Return stealth like it was on live. Now trying to kill in a backline is suicidal. Impossible to re-stealth. Even a pet is enough to prevent stealth.

• Add a stackable incoming heal debuff to all executions/finishers, but cleanse-able by all healers. One execution = 25%, which if no cleanses performed would give 100% in ~10 sec if you try hard with low mechanic points (low dmg). One cleanse and you have to start over

Compared to other melee dps WH is definitely not worth the spot. Indeed the squishiest, but the damage I guess comparable to other classes. Nevertheless, it is easily countered with positioning/knockback/knockdown. After the feinted positioning ability is over (and has 1m cooldown), this is it. Just don't show your back and you can laugh at the numbers
However, giving more damage would make 1v1 bad. Giving more armor is just not appropriate for the class and would make def WEs even more retarded. Utility is what is lacking. And stackable heal debuff in my opinion would fill the void.

Wh dont have incoming and outgoing healdebuff ?

keeping the outgoing up on WH is harder due to requiring you to use executions and its 5 sec duration.

So if 5 sec its too fast i suggest a Aura like chosen.

Sulorie wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2020 8:22 pm

desizt wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2020 8:13 pm

There were a lot of changes on live, so "live" in general doesn't mean much to begin with.

WH for an example was nerfed several times over the years.

The live version, where WE still had an armor debuff, should be old enough to qualify as "it always had 30sec cd" even if it might have been different on release, which I doubt.

Originally it was your AP the only limiting factor for the length of stealth for both WE and WH. It's the reason why there are AP picks in the renown trainer IMO. People had an actual reason to spend rr in them.

Ototo wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 3:05 pm

Sulorie wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2020 8:22 pm

desizt wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2020 8:13 pm

There were a lot of changes on live, so "live" in general doesn't mean much to begin with.

WH for an example was nerfed several times over the years.

The live version, where WE still had an armor debuff, should be old enough to qualify as "it always had 30sec cd" even if it might have been different on release, which I doubt.

Originally it was your AP the only limiting factor for the length of stealth for both WE and WH. It's the reason why there are AP picks in the renown trainer IMO. People had an actual reason to spend rr in them.

The ap renown skills increase your ap pool but don't give more ap regen. Furthermore, there was never passive ap regen gained with renown skills.

Stealth classes worked totally different in WAR compared to other games like DAoC. You never had endless stealth. It lasted 60 sec and drained 4ap per sec. It was never different.

Both WH and WE deserve to get medium armour as, as other stated, they have comparable damage output of other mdps but they are even squishier. A medium armour would make them more forgiving and playable in scenarios (12 vs 12) and warband.

Interesting Discussion, kind of makes me wish I still had my WH.

to the OP hang in there. sometimes it gets rough but in those times is where you try differtent specs and approaches. you will find something that works.

i miss this game.

Hi guys! I think Wh has alot of Potential. Biggest Problem is you are forced to pick so many spells and tactics for specific builds from your talenttrees, that you become very limited and every build ends in a very situatial one.

For example: you go BaL u can only go BB without RB and 100% disrupt spell. So it Limits you to kill sorcs and mags cause u cant Reach BB which would allow u to kill armor target aswel. If u try to skill it u will die in a sec.

U want to go heal debuff, you cant get defense stuff again.

If you try any other Build than judgment u always have to skill oil... Again you are limited. You have to use DG for Moral aoe cant Provider anything Else and have basicly no function. You want to try BB abso Spam u cant take Bf and FC FA and Atonrmrnt at same so u imited again.
At the end of the Day u can only Run BaL BB without having defense abilities and die in sec or go and kill sorcs mags but cant Deal damage to anyone Else cause of missing arpen
Killing good geared healers.. Dont even bother.

How could we solve the Problem without big difficult obviously very challenging work- intensive progresses for the devs?

Here some ideas:
-make oil baseline because u always need it but dont want to always spend 6 points into judgment tree.
-removes gcd from bullets so i can rotate bullets in my rota without crippling my dps
-removes positional restriction from BaL, PW so i can use it without FP against good players
-make our backjump stagger not beeing able to be parried blocked
-thinking about making crucial tactics for specific builds like BB atonment FC baseline and/or swap them With tactics which actually synergyse With the Talent tree like putting vindication into left tree With 100 percent disrupt Talent or swap BB from 9th to 7th one to make it more Reachable.
-make burn heretic magical damage to make the middle tree a magical damage tree
-make heal debuff baseline
-dispell should build a combo point or be off gcd
-scale our openers from stealth somehow. Scale it with strengh they deal 30 damage at lvl 40 and 150 at lvl 15 doesnt make any sense
-put a snare into anything Else than our 2 casttime sec min Range 20 damage pistolshot or give us a minor movementspeed buff after leaving stealth so we wont get KB and cant ever Reach the target again.
-dunno if will be op but remove oil from relict property
-let us build atleast 1 combopoint from Range so i try to do something in Wb. I understand that WB is not the place to be for WH but shooting a Dragon gun every 10 secs would be something. Suggestion : every 3 snapshot we build a combo point

These are some ideas. I dont think all of them would be healthy at once but some of them could be an Inspiration for future class changes.

Anyway Peace out cya on the battlefield

kryss wrote: Mon Jan 27, 2020 12:12 pm You are judging a class for its WB appeal. Well, WH is clearly not meant for that, as we all say and know, but they are a rewarding class if played solo. I got a rr77 one (was 100 on live) and I find it the most rewarding class: it's strong but not OP in 1 vs 1, if u want to win all your fights (and you can, even 1 vs 2 or even 1 vs 3 if they're rlly bad) you need to gear/play well. Meaning switch tactics according to enemy classes (sometimes players, if you know-learn their spec), etcetc. If you do this, well I think it's one of the best solo experience you can have here on ror. WB? well, I'd like to have Dragon gun reverted to the previous moral drain numbers, so even WHs might be relevant in endgame content

This. WH is tough to play, plain and simple. Being 'viable for WB play' just shoehorns classes into only 1 wanted spec too often, I feel. My personal love for the class stems from its necessity to adapt on the fly. The use of several different tactic sets for specific occasions/targets cannot be stressed enough. I have one for general roaming when I myself might get ganked. One for dok's. One for sieges. For casters. And more. The class is patience. Waiting for the right moment. A one-size-fits-all tactic set doesn't exist for the WH since we often are buy ourselves and the gaps in our build can't be filled by the buffs and things gained by running with a group or warband.

Everyone wants to play something that's 'strong enough for solo if I want to roam, but still has group utility. Tanky but can still put out some dps.' The challenge of a class is just as much about adapting to what it can't do as much as it is learning what it can. Tempering expectations is important: if everyone can do everything then what's the appeal of the different classes? There's plenty the WH sucks at, and plenty it's good at. Too many people pick a class first and then try figure out the style of play they want, ultimately ending up disappointed or calling for buffs because they can't get it to perform the way they imagined. Decide how you want to play and then pick the class that best suits it.

All in all, for what this mediocre WH's opinion is worth, I don't see anything major that needs changed with the class or it's WE 'mirror.'

Electus wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 1:03 am Interesting Discussion, kind of makes me wish I still had my WH.

to the OP hang in there. sometimes it gets rough but in those times is where you try differtent specs and approaches. you will find something that works.

i miss this game.

Yep, just find your way and enjoy it.

Damn you,
I do miss these encounters between a mean and nasty SW and my Magus.

I have just started playing WH and whilst i'm enjoying alot of the class i'm getting very frustrated with some parts of it. I was reading through this thread and one of the statements near the start says

"The reason is the stealth and the many crippling CCs at their disposal, combined with a huge burst damage"

Now maybe i'm missing something but i've looked through the trees and career builder and other than pistol whip and the snare on your basic shot I cant see any cc at all, am I missing something or are there other CC abilities available