Return of Reckoning

pawnsacrifice wrote: ↑Thu Mar 30, 2023 9:52 pm

dalen wrote: ↑Thu Mar 30, 2023 9:43 pm

pawnsacrifice wrote: ↑Thu Mar 30, 2023 9:28 pm

I don't understand. Before the change the proc was 1200 armor as per here where you can see screenshots of the set bonuses: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1nuS ... ZoqP4/edit

In updating HV and the set, it was increased to 1770 because of the increased item level I'm assuming. But now it's worse than it was originally. From what I understand it can be changed back to 1200, but for some reason someone decided to nerf it all across the board. For the small changes in HV and swapping out block for parry it doesn't deserve nerfing corrosion to a weaker than previous value. Same goes for the other sets. Nobody cared before, so it wasn't necessary. It's mind boggling.

The Mayhem set armor debuff also turned into 1770 as soon as the player at that level stepped into an RvR lake and was bolstered. If players didn't care before that was likely because they didn't know how that stuff actually worked and how broken OP it was.

Earlier when vale walker had 1200 armor debuff on tanks, the other procs on the set had lower values for tanks than all other archetypes, because the level is for the whole armor set.
Now the stat procs on tanks have the same power as all the other archetypes.

So are you saying it always had a max value of 1770 for all sets with the proc previous to this change? Just the tooltip was incorrect?

The Mayhem proc was 870 before and you could get it at lvl 24. At that level you get bolstered to 48, so that bolsters all your gear by 2x (48 / 24 = 2). That means the 870 debuff proc became 870 * 2 = 1740, with bolster in RvR lakes.

RE: this patch

Some quick napkin math regarding scenario crests:

1 base crest.
Player min-maxing is going to compete in typically 2 categories, their role and objective. They rush flag and do maximum numerical output their role can do. 0-2 crests, Avg of 1.
A game in which a team surrenders is a match they have no real chance of generating more points, so score total should be 0- <200, Avg 1 crest.

Avg 2.5 crests for a surrender, roughly 5 minutes from crest gain to crest grain with fast pops, 30 crests/hr

Same as above but waiting until 6 minutes to surrender, 3.5 crests at roughly 7 minute cycle, 29.9999 crests/hr

Same as above but no surrender, 9-15 minutes games, 10-16 minute cycle, avg of 13. 4.5 crest per cycle. 20 crests/hr

So it looks like if unwinnable, surrender at 4 is always optimal unless waiting until 6 minutes would yield another 100pt tick for a bonus crest and playing out the sc with incredibly low chance of gaining extra crest through points or kills is never optimal.

Quick, theoretical napkin math, correct me if anything looks off.

Uchoo wrote: ↑Thu Mar 30, 2023 11:24 pm Some quick napkin math regarding scenario crests:

1 base crest.
Player min-maxing is going to compete in typically 2 categories, their role and objective. They rush flag and do maximum numerical output their role can do. 0-2 crests, Avg of 1.
A game in which a team surrenders is a match they have no real chance of generating more points, so score total should be 0- <200, Avg 1 crest.

Avg 2.5 crests for a surrender, roughly 5 minutes from crest gain to crest grain with fast pops, 30 crests/hr

Same as above but waiting until 6 minutes to surrender, 3.5 crests at roughly 7 minute cycle, 29.9999 crests/hr

Same as above but no surrender, 9-15 minutes games, 10-16 minute cycle, avg of 13. 4.5 crest per cycle. 20 crests/hr

So it looks like if unwinnable, surrender at 4 is always optimal unless waiting until 6 minutes would yield another 100pt tick for a bonus crest and playing out the sc with incredibly low chance of gaining extra crest through points or kills is never optimal.

Quick, theoretical napkin math, correct me if anything looks off.

who the hell is doing this decision process when they are surrendering?

tvbrowntown wrote: ↑Thu Mar 30, 2023 11:36 pm

who the hell is doing this decision process when they are surrendering?

Someone who is trying to get the most crests for time played? haha

Uchoo wrote: ↑Thu Mar 30, 2023 11:41 pm

tvbrowntown wrote: ↑Thu Mar 30, 2023 11:36 pm

who the hell is doing this decision process when they are surrendering?

Someone who is trying to get the most crests for time played? haha

lol, yeah but I mean seriously - nobody is doing this and if they are they would be less than 1% of our roughly 700-900 peak player population (ebb and flow population™) so who exactly is RoR Team trying to stop with this change? a boogey-man playerbase that MIGHT exist?

you have to ask, who is leading the conversation about making changes within the RoR team? I know there are slim resources but at least prioritize them well please?

bradbury111 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 30, 2023 2:56 pm I was expecting the HV armor debuff value tuned "down a bit", didn't expect a change so harsh towards lower tier sets bonuses.

The sc change is...pointless?

For lower tiers not everybody uses Armor Potions from the AH, let alone know how to make it themselves. This is a good change for lower tiers, were new players are still trying to understand and survive the new gearing economy. Newbies compose the bulk of the playerbase.

Schweedy wrote: ↑Fri Mar 31, 2023 12:17 am

bradbury111 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 30, 2023 2:56 pm I was expecting the HV armor debuff value tuned "down a bit", didn't expect a change so harsh towards lower tier sets bonuses.

The sc change is...pointless?

For lower tiers not everybody uses Armor Potions from the AH, let alone know how to make it themselves. This is a good change for lower tiers, were new players are still trying to understand and survive the new gearing economy. Newbies compose the bulk of the playerbase.

the percentage of 59 from 275 is approximately 21.45%.

Oh, I guess they really do make up a good part of the population.

If it's a change aimed at the lower tier why not... you know just change it for the lower tiers and keep the values for the higher tiers?

So weird it's like they want new players but then add stuff like 2 emblems for 5mins and yes most games are stomps.

dalen wrote: ↑Thu Mar 30, 2023 6:15 pm

Detangler wrote: ↑Thu Mar 30, 2023 5:01 pm Ya know, there were plenty of times I knew my side was planning on surrendering and most had given up, but I'd jump back in to see if I can get/secure top protection or objectives for the extra crest, and didn't care if I died again. Selfish? Maybe, but now you're gonna have even less people trying.

Those that hit surrender don't care about the extra rewards for top category, so this won't change anything.

The extra crest for earning medals for top score hasn't changed at all.

If you lose a scenario you get:

1 crest base
1 crest per 100 points (up to 4 crests for 400+ points)
1 crest per medal won (5 crests if you win all five categories)
1 crest if T2+ and scenario took 6+ minutes
1 crest if T4 and it was not a surrender

So maximum crests a player can get for a single scenario on the losing side is 12.

What changed in this patch was that the conditions in bold and underline were added.

That be literal like 2-3 tops usually.

Who wins even 5 medals ?
Often times you cant make even 100 points, because either premade gank you back into spawn and camps, or you cant make a push since your side wont have healers, i constantly encounter Sc's where destro gets 3-6 healers, 75% of them shamans.

1 base 1 T2 or T4 maybe 1 medal

the only time i play SC is if i level a twink and there is an XP bonus.

Also even then, its that trustrating i dont want to even bother, People only look for rr 70+ rather rr 80 + for premades in T4 also forced discord, that is not anything you play for fun, its like worse then Esports tournerments.

Then you get qued against rull sov 80 ppl.. so if your not in end gear you cannot compete, you lack the damage, you take more damage.

Literal tossing people in 40s to 60s in a blender and expect them to have a fun experience.

Also you " nerf " lower sets so people have it even harder to compete on that too ?

The issue is not a debuff beeing OP or a Reward being to low.

Its a huge gear - renowen rank gap that should be tackled.



I think due to the amount of people geared and on high RR that there should be a balance revision.

And if that would mean you cluster Renown tank 40-65 and 65+

Even if that means you have to wait longer on a SC pop at least you have the chance to maybe have a better experience .

Like the idea you have the chance to earn more crests even if you lose is good, that you get punished for surrendering is good, personal i see it as super annoying.



just my 50 cent.