Return of Reckoning

akisnaakkeli wrote: ↑Thu Jul 25, 2024 12:07 pm

Aluviya wrote: ↑Thu Jul 25, 2024 11:23 am It's generally really confusing to me to see "channeling" has far too many interpretations in the game. Most RDPS'es/Healers have channels that can't be used while moving. In melee you find different types with different ranges allowing you to even apply damage from further than any other MDPS ability (like WE/WH 30 Ft., RA, TbP). Or various amount of hits in the same channeling time like (BG/SW, 3 sec totaly with a hit every 0,5 s vs. WP/DOK 4 times in 3 secs vs. SM 5 times in 4 secs . vs. BlOrc a hit every 0,75 s in 3 secs = 4 times vs Chosen 6 times in 3 secs). I am kinda missing consistency of hits/range/description here overall on what the defintion of channel should be. Meanwhile want to point out here that for the current proc meta it would really matter how many hits one can apply in the 3 secs...

This sounds like you are checking careerbuilder but not really playing on those classes. Because there has never been melee channel that didnt allow you to move, and all (most) 3s melee channels are 8s cooldown. Only Pbaoe channels whihch dont need target have ever been standing still with things like withering heat/indigo fire of change/HoR and is single target and needs target.

All casts have 25ft + before breaking which means that melee channels wont break before target is 30ft away. Or Fireball wont cancel before target is 126ft away. This 25ft extra on casting was true for everything casted. Imagine if fireball breaks instantly if target is 101ft? the game wont work at all like that. Im pretty sure without checking game that

I never disputed that meleechannels are not castable on the move - I only compared to range channels.And in fact I am not playing all classes actively (why does it matter in this case?). And the part about I am pointing out that there is 0 consistency what a _channel_ is supposed to be with the given factors of range, hit frequency and ability description. I also don't get the addition that "they are on 8 sec cooldown" all offensive channeling abilities have CD- otherwise they'd be even more broken than they already are - and 8 secs are nothing magus for instace has 16s while sorc and bw have 11s. And additionally "Only Pbaoe channels whihch dont need target have ever been standing still with things like withering heat/indigo fire of change/HoR" - This is partially wrong too. Magus can AoE channel while moving. And considering the theory that game is not instantly breaking a spell building - Have you played any caster recently though, because that is exactly how it is currently, any break on range or a micromoment breaking line of sight ends any ability cast (be it a healing or damaging spell).

Aluviya wrote: ↑Thu Jul 25, 2024 12:54 pm

akisnaakkeli wrote: ↑Thu Jul 25, 2024 12:07 pm

Aluviya wrote: ↑Thu Jul 25, 2024 11:23 am It's generally really confusing to me to see "channeling" has far too many interpretations in the game. Most RDPS'es/Healers have channels that can't be used while moving. In melee you find different types with different ranges allowing you to even apply damage from further than any other MDPS ability (like WE/WH 30 Ft., RA, TbP). Or various amount of hits in the same channeling time like (BG/SW, 3 sec totaly with a hit every 0,5 s vs. WP/DOK 4 times in 3 secs vs. SM 5 times in 4 secs . vs. BlOrc a hit every 0,75 s in 3 secs = 4 times vs Chosen 6 times in 3 secs). I am kinda missing consistency of hits/range/description here overall on what the defintion of channel should be. Meanwhile want to point out here that for the current proc meta it would really matter how many hits one can apply in the 3 secs...

This sounds like you are checking careerbuilder but not really playing on those classes. Because there has never been melee channel that didnt allow you to move, and all (most) 3s melee channels are 8s cooldown. Only Pbaoe channels whihch dont need target have ever been standing still with things like withering heat/indigo fire of change/HoR and is single target and needs target.

All casts have 25ft + before breaking which means that melee channels wont break before target is 30ft away. Or Fireball wont cancel before target is 126ft away. This 25ft extra on casting was true for everything casted. Imagine if fireball breaks instantly if target is 101ft? the game wont work at all like that. Im pretty sure without checking game that

I never disputed that meleechannels are not castable on the move - I only compared to range channels.And in fact I am not playing all classes actively (why does it matter in this case?). And the part about I am pointing out that there is 0 consistency what a _channel_ is supposed to be with the given factors of range, hit frequency and ability description. I also don't get the addition that "they are on 8 sec cooldown" all offensive channeling abilities have CD- otherwise they'd be even more broken than they already are - and 8 secs are nothing magus for instace has 16s while sorc and bw have 11s. And additionally "Only Pbaoe channels whihch dont need target have ever been standing still with things like withering heat/indigo fire of change/HoR" - This is partially wrong too. Magus can AoE channel while moving. And considering the theory that game is not instantly breaking a spell building - Have you played any caster recently though, because that is exactly how it is currently, any break on range or a micromoment breaking line of sight ends any ability cast (be it a healing or damaging spell).

Notice i said melee channels have 8s cooldown with 3s cast. I think its good magus has this pbaoe ability on the move because otherwise its useless, but its RoR modification, one i Like. As is Indigo fire of change being havoc 13pts + 2s mutating blue fire casttime are all RoR changes i love. Would love Y i play Magus,Sorc/bw and im trying to have a discussion about many things and u pick one, and its wrong:D you quote me and still say and ask about wrong thing ive never even said. Youre trying something else than actually have an discussion.

Not been many days that i played magus and sorc, didnt notice microbreaks on los or instant stop if target is just few ft over 100ft. Gonna play tonite hopefully so im gonna see=) I dont like that ror added Sc flags and bushes or small fences breaking los its a ror change just feels very stupid that people can TOTALLY shut casting down if they just walk back and forth crossing of SC flag...

Aluviya wrote: ↑Thu Jul 25, 2024 11:23 am It's generally really confusing to me to see "channeling" has far too many interpretations in the game. Most RDPS'es/Healers have channels that can't be used while moving. In melee you find different types with different ranges allowing you to even apply damage from further than any other MDPS ability (like WE/WH 30 Ft., RA, TbP). Or various amount of hits in the same channeling time like (BG/SW, 3 sec totaly with a hit every 0,5 s vs. WP/DOK 4 times in 3 secs vs. SM 5 times in 4 secs . vs. BlOrc a hit every 0,75 s in 3 secs = 4 times vs Chosen 6 times in 3 secs). I am kinda missing consistency of hits/range/description here overall on what the defintion of channel should be. Meanwhile want to point out here that for the current proc meta it would really matter how many hits one can apply in the 3 secs...

Channelling is an ability mechanic where instead of a cast bar going from empty to full with the ability then triggering at the end, instead the cast bar begins full slowly empties over time. During this time the ability repeatedly triggers. The ability can be interrupted early by most/all of the same things that interrupt a regular cast. Due to the ability costing repeated amounts of action points, the healing and damage is classified as direct healing/damage which allows it to proc a lot of secondary effects and allows them to do do more damage/healing compared to a DoT/HoT.

That's pretty much it.

Besides that, it's like saying "casted abilities" have too many interpretations as some have different cast times, different ranges, different restrictions on when you can and cannot move, etc. Likewise with non-channelled abilities, damage that happens over time can have different tick rates (typically every 3 seconds but not always. Variance in hit rate, moving/stationary, range, etc, are things that apply to all abilities and while there are some common themes, channelled abilities - much like non-channelled abilities - do not have a narrow set of rules that must be adhered to.

Omegus wrote: ↑Thu Jul 25, 2024 2:04 pm

Aluviya wrote: ↑Thu Jul 25, 2024 11:23 am It's generally really confusing to me to see "channeling" has far too many interpretations in the game. Most RDPS'es/Healers have channels that can't be used while moving. In melee you find different types with different ranges allowing you to even apply damage from further than any other MDPS ability (like WE/WH 30 Ft., RA, TbP). Or various amount of hits in the same channeling time like (BG/SW, 3 sec totaly with a hit every 0,5 s vs. WP/DOK 4 times in 3 secs vs. SM 5 times in 4 secs . vs. BlOrc a hit every 0,75 s in 3 secs = 4 times vs Chosen 6 times in 3 secs). I am kinda missing consistency of hits/range/description here overall on what the defintion of channel should be. Meanwhile want to point out here that for the current proc meta it would really matter how many hits one can apply in the 3 secs...

Channelling is an ability mechanic where instead of a cast bar going from empty to full with the ability then triggering at the end, instead the cast bar begins full slowly empties over time. During this time the ability repeatedly triggers. The ability can be interrupted early by most/all of the same things that interrupt a regular cast. Due to the ability costing repeated amounts of action points, the healing and damage is classified as direct healing/damage which allows it to proc a lot of secondary effects and allows them to do do more damage/healing compared to a DoT/HoT.

That's pretty much it.

Besides that, it's like saying "casted abilities" have too many interpretations as some have different cast times, different ranges, different restrictions on when you can and cannot move, etc. Likewise with non-channelled abilities, damage that happens over time can have different tick rates (typically every 3 seconds but not always. Variance in hit rate, moving/stationary, range, etc, are things that apply to all abilities and while there are some common themes, channelled abilities - much like non-channelled abilities - do not have a narrow set of rules that must be adhered to.

Quick question, just to make sure we're all talking about the same game experience, where do you play the game from?

Given how flimsy the channel heal is now, whether as it was on live or not (doubt it was like its current state on live), how about revert the Transfer Essence back to live and remove its shield requirement? Those 2 classes lack anything like kd, disarm, charge, etc which all other melee classes have but are (were?) supposed to have strong heal.

georgehabadasher wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2024 9:21 am

Omegus wrote: ↑Thu Jul 25, 2024 2:04 pm

Aluviya wrote: ↑Thu Jul 25, 2024 11:23 am It's generally really confusing to me to see "channeling" has far too many interpretations in the game. Most RDPS'es/Healers have channels that can't be used while moving. In melee you find different types with different ranges allowing you to even apply damage from further than any other MDPS ability (like WE/WH 30 Ft., RA, TbP). Or various amount of hits in the same channeling time like (BG/SW, 3 sec totaly with a hit every 0,5 s vs. WP/DOK 4 times in 3 secs vs. SM 5 times in 4 secs . vs. BlOrc a hit every 0,75 s in 3 secs = 4 times vs Chosen 6 times in 3 secs). I am kinda missing consistency of hits/range/description here overall on what the defintion of channel should be. Meanwhile want to point out here that for the current proc meta it would really matter how many hits one can apply in the 3 secs...

Channelling is an ability mechanic where instead of a cast bar going from empty to full with the ability then triggering at the end, instead the cast bar begins full slowly empties over time. During this time the ability repeatedly triggers. The ability can be interrupted early by most/all of the same things that interrupt a regular cast. Due to the ability costing repeated amounts of action points, the healing and damage is classified as direct healing/damage which allows it to proc a lot of secondary effects and allows them to do do more damage/healing compared to a DoT/HoT.

That's pretty much it.

Besides that, it's like saying "casted abilities" have too many interpretations as some have different cast times, different ranges, different restrictions on when you can and cannot move, etc. Likewise with non-channelled abilities, damage that happens over time can have different tick rates (typically every 3 seconds but not always. Variance in hit rate, moving/stationary, range, etc, are things that apply to all abilities and while there are some common themes, channelled abilities - much like non-channelled abilities - do not have a narrow set of rules that must be adhered to.

Quick question, just to make sure we're all talking about the same game experience, where do you play the game from?

Not that it has any relation to the message quoted, but the UK. And yes I am aware that trying to play games on a server half the world away will cause some latency issues. That doesn't excuse running out of RF mid-channel though

Omegus wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2024 2:26 pm

georgehabadasher wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2024 9:21 am

Omegus wrote: ↑Thu Jul 25, 2024 2:04 pm

Channelling is an ability mechanic where instead of a cast bar going from empty to full with the ability then triggering at the end, instead the cast bar begins full slowly empties over time. During this time the ability repeatedly triggers. The ability can be interrupted early by most/all of the same things that interrupt a regular cast. Due to the ability costing repeated amounts of action points, the healing and damage is classified as direct healing/damage which allows it to proc a lot of secondary effects and allows them to do do more damage/healing compared to a DoT/HoT.

That's pretty much it.

Besides that, it's like saying "casted abilities" have too many interpretations as some have different cast times, different ranges, different restrictions on when you can and cannot move, etc. Likewise with non-channelled abilities, damage that happens over time can have different tick rates (typically every 3 seconds but not always. Variance in hit rate, moving/stationary, range, etc, are things that apply to all abilities and while there are some common themes, channelled abilities - much like non-channelled abilities - do not have a narrow set of rules that must be adhered to.

Quick question, just to make sure we're all talking about the same game experience, where do you play the game from?

Not that it has any relation to the message quoted, but the UK. And yes I am aware that trying to play games on a server half the world away will cause some latency issues. That doesn't excuse running out of RF mid-channel though

Nobody cares about how i ran out of RF mid channel. That not the point of the topic. The channel just sucks everybody that play wp or dok dps gonna tell you it's unreliable that's a fact. I can use a normal ability even if my enemies are on the side should they make it it cancel the ability on normal abilities too when people are not DIRECTLY in front? C'mon man.

This is getting embarrassing now.

yoluigi wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2024 6:12 pmI can use a normal ability even if my enemies are on the side should they make it it cancel the ability on normal abilities too when people are not DIRECTLY in front? C'mon man.

THIS IS ALREADY IN THE GAME . The front/back checks were broken from about mid-2021 and were fixed again when the new ability code came in (end of 2023?).

If you are moving about then melee attacks - channelled and otherwise - will fail if the opponent is outside of your cone of fire. The cone of fire calculations are standard: the cone of fire is your front 180 degrees, and the enemy's angle is determined using their centre point. If you try to use a melee ability while the opponent is in your back arc then you get the "Target outside cone of fire" message appear. This is even shown on the video you have posted.

Annoyingly, if you start channelling on someone and they then move into your back arc then the channel stops but there is no "Target outside cone of fire" message displayed. I'm not sure if that is on the bug tracker but it might be worth raising it if not, if only so you have a better idea of why your ability "breaks from nothing".

If you are not moving then normal melee abilities will auto-face you towards the opponent but channelled melee abilities do not. This does not appear to apply at any point in your video as you are always moving.

yoluigi wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2024 6:12 pmThe channel just sucks everybody that play wp or dok dps gonna tell you it's unreliable that's a fact.

Absolutely nothing in your video or anything else shows any issue with the Warrior Priest channel. It is behaving in exactly the same way as all other channels, except for the first clip where you zoomed in and cut it short so it's impossible to work out what happened.

It broke when the enemy is in your back arc, just like all single-target melee channels. It broke when you ran out of the required resources, just like all single-target melee channels. It broke when the target got too far away, just like all single-target melee channels.

yoluigi wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2024 6:12 pmNobody cares about how i ran out of RF mid channel.

I keep bringing it up because in your evidence video of how "bad" the channel video it is a clear example that - worryingly - you seem to have no clue what is actually going on when then casts huge doubt on whether the ability is at fault or the player. You are not realising your opponent is in the back arc, you are not realising the enemy is too far away, you are not realising when you have run out of resources early, and going by the "I can use a normal ability even if my enemies are on the side..." outburst you're not realising that your other melee attacks are already failing when the enemy is in your back arc. And instead of realising and acknowledging any of this, you are still putting blame on one specific ability when the others like it all work the same.

Skill issue.

Omegus wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2024 2:26 pm

georgehabadasher wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2024 9:21 am

Omegus wrote: ↑Thu Jul 25, 2024 2:04 pm

Channelling is an ability mechanic where instead of a cast bar going from empty to full with the ability then triggering at the end, instead the cast bar begins full slowly empties over time. During this time the ability repeatedly triggers. The ability can be interrupted early by most/all of the same things that interrupt a regular cast. Due to the ability costing repeated amounts of action points, the healing and damage is classified as direct healing/damage which allows it to proc a lot of secondary effects and allows them to do do more damage/healing compared to a DoT/HoT.

That's pretty much it.

Besides that, it's like saying "casted abilities" have too many interpretations as some have different cast times, different ranges, different restrictions on when you can and cannot move, etc. Likewise with non-channelled abilities, damage that happens over time can have different tick rates (typically every 3 seconds but not always. Variance in hit rate, moving/stationary, range, etc, are things that apply to all abilities and while there are some common themes, channelled abilities - much like non-channelled abilities - do not have a narrow set of rules that must be adhered to.

Quick question, just to make sure we're all talking about the same game experience, where do you play the game from?

Not that it has any relation to the message quoted, but the UK. And yes I am aware that trying to play games on a server half the world away will cause some latency issues. That doesn't excuse running out of RF mid-channel though

Do you think it's possible that latency makes channels less usable, and that your focus on the specifics of the video might be distracting from a real problem that affects anyone not playing from Europe?

georgehabadasher wrote: ↑Sat Jul 27, 2024 8:30 amDo you think it's possible that latency makes channels less usable, and that your focus on the specifics of the video might be distracting from a real problem that affects anyone not playing from Europe?

Of course, and if the OP has actually articulated that point instead of trying to say specifically the WP channel "breaks from nothing" then I would've backed them up. Instead we have the absolute nonsense in the video and the thread where it supposedly "breaks from nothing" which was disproved with his own video evidence.

It now breaks very reliably when out of cone of fire, out of range and out of resources. If any of those 3 are a problem then an actual constructive feedback post about them is far more useful then this absolute dumpster fire of a thread with it's false assumptions and contradicting evidence.