Return of Reckoning

Azarael wrote:Yes, it doesn't take into account T1. And that's even WORSE for your argument. T1 is likely the only reason that ticker didn't show 80%/20%.

It showed 86%/14% at one point.

Ungrin wrote:

Luuca wrote:

Sulorie wrote:It is ridiculous that some people still fail to see the differences.
As order was superior both sides were server-wide balanced but destro preferred to guard mailboxes, because they sucked. It was a self-made problem.
After the last patch people changed sides, because of a flaw in the reward system, resulting in server-wide imbalances.
Those are two pair of shoes. Don't mix them.

The Realm Balance Scale does not take into account Level. Think about that. T1 counts as part of that number. It's not accurate nor should it be used exclusively to claim realm balance. You are basing your argument on a flawed source of information; therefore, your argument is flawed.

I'm not sure why destro had such a hard time getting it's sh*t together the past 2 weeks, but it's clear we did and Order did benefit from that. I just don't think that wiping progress that destro made once they did get their sh*t together is going to encourage them to even try again.

I said it before and I'll say it again. Changes were made to force the smaller faction to have to fight the larger faction in ORVR because the larger faction was claiming and complaining about the smaller faction "avoiding the fight" and "going where they (the larger faction) was not to farm empty BOs and Keeps. And Order, when they were the larger faction, seemed just fine with those changes. But after just one night of Destro being dominant and order not being able to mount a defense, and **** gets real... Devs use the way-back machine and wipe progress.

Why didn't this same type of wipe occur when T2 was released and Order was very dominant and farmed for the T2 inf gear more easily than Destro? Remember that?

You can't have it both ways. You can't game the system so that, knowing you are the dominant faction, the dominant faction has the clear advantage and then bitch and moan when you become the smaller faction and are marginalized in the game. You have to learn to accept that sh*t isn't always going to go your way.. wait.. I guess it does.

There were 3 wbs of destro and 10 order players.


You know, you remind me of the old addage:

When people are confronted with information that directly contradicts their opinion, they become more steadfast and zealous in their opinion.

You're blinded by your hatred.

OK, so I've been called stupid, and now I am a hater. No folks, I'm merely pointing out that there is some level of hypocrisy here in the actions of the Order faction.

Let me state the facts just so you staunch defenders of fairness can understand where I'm coming from:

In the RvR lakes, Order has dominated with far superior numbers over the past two weeks. Why? I don't know. I do know that they have. I believe we agree on that.

Patch day, Destro decides it's time to sack up and go after the new rewards in game. The game rules are that you get that reward by Taking Keeps.. So the go about taking keeps. Momentum on the destro side grows as more and more destro players stop farming the IC and come to get their Keeps on. Seeing that Destro is mounting a much larger than usual force in Orvr, some Order players who have T2 level toons on Destro log out and log onto their Destro Toons. Other Order players throw up their hands realizing that without the numbers, mounting a defense is impossible. This X-realming by Order onto Destro "snowballs" and gains momentum to the point that the server is nearly 85% Destro toons.

Order X-realming onto Destro or giving up and logging off is the ONLY way this imbalance could happen in such a severe way. No other way this could happen folks.

So now we have the Order players on their Destro Toons on the Keep Train to Coolsville and the usual Destro players all together. That's when you had the 80-20 realm balance (or worse)

So lets recap.

Destro starts Farming Keeps and Medallions under the newly minted RvR system. Within the rules of the new system - no one was exploiting or cheating.

As it becomes clear the destro pain train is gonna steamroll any Order in its path; Order players either
A) Log Off cause WTF Zerg
B) Log on their Destro Toon and Join In on the farming

Either way, Order has contributed to the issue. There is no other way that Destro could have pulled off those numbers.

Can you at least admit this is really what happened? Please. Just admit it. Ok good. Thank you. Moving On

Now at the end of the day, a very vocal minority (has to be a minority because why would the Order players who farmed for hours on destro want their sh*t taken away? Unless, of course, that was the plan all along..) complains to the Devs about the imbalance and unfairness of the system.

The sequence again:
Destro gets it's crap together
Order Logs out and/or joins them on their destro toons
The Keep Farming happens for hours
The remaining marginalized (I agree you were screwed) Order players shout UNFAIR
The Dev decides it was unfair for Destro to Farm Keeps because of the SERVER IMBALANCE
The SERVER IMBALANCE caused by ORDER Xrealming
Everyone gets their gear/medals/stuff wiped to keep it fair
Order players set about bitching that Destro caused the problem

Is this a Destro problem or an Order X-realming problem? Order players have called it the Great Destro Zerg of 2015..

I submit this was a problem caused by Order players. How else could Destro, who traditionally hasn't been able to organize anything in open RvR greater than an /ad chat b*tch session, pull off those kind of numbers? Think about it.

Now for the record, again, I only had like 25-30 tokens at the end of the night. My 6-man was fighting the Order players who were on. Namely Extrasquishy, Kok, Boobookitty, and others. The server item wipe didn't even affect me in the least and it's not the reason why I post on here. I just want Order to understand that their own player base caused this imbalance. So calling this a Destro issue or blaming this on Destro is nonsense. I'm not defending the Keep Farming; however, it was not exploiting and did follow the rules as set by the Devs at the time.

If you want to be pissed, be pissed at those players on your side who X-realmed to cause the issue. I know I am.

You're wrong again in some many levels. You should think more about the health of the game instead of yourself. I don't believe any Dev will answer you know, cause they already have, and it isn't even worth the time.

dkabib wrote:You're wrong again in so many levels. You should think more about the health of the game instead of yourself. I don't believe any Dev will answer you know, because they already have, and it isn't even worth thier time.

FIFY

OK, tell me how Destro was able to become 85% of the server population unless one of three things occurred:

1. Order logged off after getting stomped (Subtracting from the numbers of Order Online)
2. Players who normally play Order logged into their Destruction Accounts (adding to the numbers of Destro online)
3. It was just off-hours for Order players and less were on than usual (An Anomaly)

Tell me. How did Destro suddenly become 85% of the Online Player Base? How did we PLAN this? How is this the "Usual Destro" players fault in any way?

Did Destro log on and multi-box two+ accounts? How did this happen if I am "Wrong on so many levels"?

It's neither. It's a player base problem, not a order or destro problem. The players who xrealmed deserve nothing for their hours of PVEing in a pvp game. Simple as that. It's a shame that ALL of destro had their **** wiped, but you know what? That's the real world.

Bad apples spoil the bunch.

We have to have speed limits because dumb **** can't drive safely at the speed they deem appropriate.

We have to have safety regulations for Food and Drug companies because they would cut cost at every corner and kill people rather than lose money.

We have to wipe Destro clean because a bunch of **** decided that PVEing a system for PVP gear was a better way to spend their time in a PVP game instead of putting up a defense.

It's not a Destro vs Order problem, it's a xrealmer vs loyalist problem. Either you have integrity or you don't. The people who don't have integrity ruined the experience for the people who do.

The thing that you don't get, is that it isn't about Order X realmers. It is about the x realmers from both sides. All of them went to destro after the first few keeps. In the beginning near half of them were balanced at order / destro.
Lets say we have 1/3 Order, 1/3 Destro and 1/3 X realmers.
In general, X realmers are divided between factions, keeping the pop at 47-53%.

BUT, seeing the rewards that they wanted so bad, all x realmers logged to destro, thus causing it to be 2/3 destro + x realms and 1/3 order, which was 70%/30%. Me and my guildies never left order that night, we found something else to do.

NOW do you get it that the problem isn't about Order x realming? It is about X realming in general.

Ungrin wrote: We have to wipe Destro clean because a bunch of **** decided that PVEing a system for PVP gear was a better way to spend their time in a PVP game instead of putting up a defense.

It's not a Destro vs Order problem, it's a xrealmer vs loyalist problem. Either you have integrity or you don't. The people who don't have integrity ruined the experience for the people who do.

Yes, I agree that it's a x-realming issue, but in this case, it seems as if Order players both In-Game and On-Forums feel it's a Destro Issue. At least you admit it wasn't a Destro Plot to exploit the game.

Also: Don;t you mean we had to wipe the server? Not just the Destro players of the items. medalions, etc?

dkabib wrote: NOW do you get it that the problem isn't about Order x realming? It is about X realming in general.

I understood that from the beginning; however, when you are accused of exploit farming and zerging for gain as a destro player both in-game and on the forums, it leads one to believe that on the whole, Order players feel this issue was caused by only loyal destruction players.

No way to stop x-realming at all. even with a paid game if someone is willing to pay two subs.

I understood that from the beginning; however, when you are accused of exploit farming and zerging for gain as a destro player both in-game and on the forums, it leads one to believe that on the whole, Order players feel this issue was caused by only loyal destruction players.

No way to stop x-realming at all. even with a paid game if someone is willing to pay two subs.

I didn't accuse anyone of exploiting. If someone did accuse (and we know some did), they were wrong. You were there farming what the game was giving you, and there really is nothing wrong with it.

The devs decided to wipe because it was flawed design to give the medals from keeps with the new gear. It could only lead to a side snowballing considering the known x realmers issue. The first fights of the night decided who would be able to farm the whole night.
Anyway, destro did get a whole crap of XP/RR and Inf for them. Yeah I know some are 26/30 but still.

Popcharts are down, but I had a screenshot of them from earlier. Looks like Order gave up around midnight and logged out. NA primetime is pretty weak, but starts around the same time. The total population is elevated, usually happens on big patches anyway, but it looks more like NA players decided to Destro it up all night long.

Blame NA?

We need more NA players, we really do.