Return of Reckoning

Posted: **Sat Oct 10, 2015 3:54 pm**

Coryphaus wrote:armor buff + tough tactic = tank

lol k

Then we have a DD, when dropping toughness tactic and slotting the intel one?

Posted: **Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:05 pm**

foof wrote:Telling me I "didn't know what I was doing", instantly means you've lost the argument. You need to debate points, not try to use ad-hoc logical fallacies to discredit the person you are debating.

I sure as hell knew what I was doing, and I'm sure as hell I was, and still am, a better player than you. Your posts are pure anecdotal garbage that use no evidence to back themselves up.

So, because you wan't to debate in this brain-dead style, what was the name and RR of your Magus and server you played on since you were "so good". I knew almost every good Magus who played this game, and I'm positive you weren't one of them. But please, keep tooting your own horn while looking like a complete fool who couldn't find a point on a knife.

And trying to imply that the Magus/Engie wouldn't lose 90% of duels in a RR90+ environment instantly proves to me that you've never experienced that. When you duel the best players on your server, you would know that the class is horrible in 1v1. As you are trying to imply that "I didn't know what I was doing", I'm going to directly imply that 'YOU'VE NEVER DONE IT". Period.

And saying you can roam around and beat RR25 people is really important to this discussion. Really proves your point man.

You're argument in all honestly boils down to a very simple concept based completely on anecdotal evidence:

I DID GOOD ON MAH MAGUS HUURRR DUURRR CLASS IS GOOD HURR DURR I AM SPECIAL HAD SPECIAL SPEC SO GOOD HURR DURRR.

Please, just stop posting for everyones sake.

I literally agree with everything you have said so far in this discussion. One has to wonder if this Zxul guy even played a magus in high lvls. Saying i did good with this class killing lowbies and unprepared people and therefore it's balanced is crazy. When you look at what magus/engi has compared to other rdps it's clear that they are not on par in anyway.

Posted: **Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:10 pm**

main problem with engis is their "entrench" playstyle. they get dmg buff when near turret, they can use AP tactic tied to turret, crit tactic tied to turret, keg, lighting rod...

it works great in keep sieges where u can entrench. in smallscale or in situation where u actually have to be mobile, engi lose huge ammount of goodies this class provide. no AA on move, 1 insta cast ability with 10sec cd.

that insta cast / cast on move (turret) might actually help them in situations where they have to be mobile. no more - move to X spot, cast your turret, use 1 ability and move again, cast your turret, move again.... - situations

as others mentioned earlier - engi is great support class that might be usually picked up as 7th party member - too bad grp has only 6 spots...

Posted: **Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:10 pm**

foof wrote:So lets go with the Magus here:

Here's a list of the Maguses utility/CC

A 3 second disarm with a 2 second cast time and a 30 second cooldown.
That also does more then x2 base dmg of sorc one- the disarm being a nice bonus- not to mention that it is 1 sec with CQ tactic which sorc won't take.
A very small knockback with a 1 second cast time, 10 second cooldown, 65 ft range.
Ask how many sorc would love to get that.
An AoE interrupt, 1 second cast time, 10 second cooldown, 65 ft range.
Agree, wasn't really useful.
A 3 second stagger (wow a joke), landmine. 15 second cooldown.
As a small clue, 3 sec matches a WH's KD. Pop one if you think WH is around. And if you didn't know that, no wonder you lost to 90%+.
A terrible melee range snare.
Which however does a very nice dps, especially after resist debuff.
A 3 second Kd based around pet, that requires you to kill your mechanic and have to resummon it.
A 3 sec KD is still very nice to finish off healers who lost some hp, and such.

And heres the Sorcs:

A ranged snare with a 2 second cast time, 10 second cooldown. - Better than Magus
Ask any sorc what it is actually good for- as is, if there was ever a single sorc who used it for snare, instead of part of the rotation.
A 3 second disarm, 1 second cast time, 30 second cooldown, and isn't specced like the Magus - Better than Magus
The magus disarm however actually does a good dmg, and with CQ tactic has same cast time- see above.
Willpower debuff.
Do you actually believe Word of Pain is used by sorcs for will debuff?
Aoe initiative debuff.
That no actual sorc ever uses.
A tactic that causes some spells to drain AP, debuff strength, ballistic, and intelligence.
That no actual sorc ever uses.
A tactic that causes the majority of your AoE skill to knockback.
That is only used to knock order off walls.
A group absorb shield tactic.
Which is only used if sorc is trying to solo a bit.

Posted: **Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:12 pm**

Now im not a magus/engie player BUT i want to ask this, i thought that engie/mag would be good 1 1v1 duel duels due to 50% detaunt that dosnt get removed by dmg?

Posted: **Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:19 pm**

foof wrote:Telling me I "didn't know what I was doing", instantly means you've lost the argument. You need to debate points, not try to use ad-hoc logical fallacies to discredit the person you are debating.

I sure as hell knew what I was doing, and I'm sure as hell I was, and still am, a better player than you. Your posts are pure anecdotal garbage that use no evidence to back themselves up.

Considering that you admitted yourself that you lost 90%+ of the fights you were in, while I won the most I was in, you have a pretty interesting definition of a good player.

foof wrote:So, because you wan't to debate in this brain-dead style, what was the name and RR of your Magus and server you played on since you were "so good". I knew almost every good Magus who played this game, and I'm positive you weren't one of them. But please, keep tooting your own horn while looking like a complete fool who couldn't find a point on a knife.

Llell, RR 80 or so, played on Krag_Norn I think was it most of the time. As for a complete fool- see the post above, you don't even seem to know what magus utility is good for. Not to mention having no idea how other classes work- see sorc part.

foof wrote:And trying to imply that the Magus/Engie wouldn't lose 90% of duels in a RR90+ environment instantly proves to me that you've never experienced that. When you duel the best players on your server, you would know that the class is horrible in 1v1. As you are trying to imply that "I didn't know what I was doing", I'm going to directly imply that 'YOU'VE NEVER DONE IT". Period.

Considering that as rr 70-80 I killed solo quite a few RR 100...

foof wrote:And saying you can roam around and beat RR25 people is really important to this discussion. Really proves your point man.

What it proves is that you didn't even managed to read what I posted, not to mention that I had beat order which quite a higher RR then 25.

foof wrote:You're argument in all honestly boils down to a very simple concept based completely on anecdotal evidence:

I DID GOOD ON MAH MAGUS HUURRR DUURRR CLASS IS GOOD HURR DURR I AM SPECIAL HAD SPECIAL SPEC SO GOOD HURR DURRR.

Please, just stop posting for everyones sake.

What this actually proves it that you have a problem with a reading comprehension. Not to mention that so far your posts can be summed up as "I sucked, so everybody else must had sucked too".

Posted: **Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:22 pm**

Chsuan wrote: I literally agree with everything you have said so far in this discussion. One has to wonder if this Zxul guy even played a magus in high lvls. Saying i did good with this class killing lowbies and unprepared people and therefore it's balanced is crazy. When you look at what magus/engi has compared to other rdps it's clear that they are not on par in anyway.

So far I had you and foof proving that you either don't know how to use the class tools, or don't even know how they work (that one about not knowing that magus armor buff stucked with armor pot, and was specifically changed this way from before- when it buffed for higher value, didn't stuck with pot, and would dissapear after 20 if I remember correctly hits, was a nice touch).

But plz continue.

Posted: **Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:23 pm**

Magus has all tools to kite for days, while still dealing dmg. You only need a higher rank than we currently have. Keep on with the discussion, fun to read.

Posted: **Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:24 pm**

i level up my magus like 2 days ago and it done great for what i saw. Debuff for the same aura value the type of magic damage you do is pretty good,and is something bw/sorc can do only for their dots damage while you can do it both aoe and ST, it also get a lot of % increase damage tactic and those scale a lot better in t4 than in t2, i wait impatiently to see what i can get from my magus.

I know engi situation can be different, and i know even how engi/magus spec in t4 but atm for what my build could consist the only problem it's that i have everytime to resp my pet. As the main post said, have it spam istantly / ap summon reduced to 0 due to cast time or /cast while move would indeed help me a lot.
The reason is that's if i summon my pet i cannot kite, and while a sorc/bw can be stil mobile and preserve is damage we cant.

Due the fact that we need to stay more close either make magus/engi more durable for base as they don't have to stack this way tough/armor etc in upper tier, or make them more kiters.

Engi/magus have a "core" armor buff that is nice but have it core mean that it cannot get better after rank 40 if that could be move inside aoe/melee path that would definettly make our classes more durable.

About the lack of damage i doubt i will have a problem with my magus while a sorc do 1 hit i do 3 hits and debuffing like 300 in spiritual it's just that i will make st the same of his damage and even more on frontal aoe spec. Sorc bw can have a 35% crit chance more and a +150% crit damage but, magus have like a possible 35-55% base increase damage from tactis hit 2/3x times the sorc/bw in ST/aoe. Our spiritual debuff is also a dot and is also spamable and due to our 25% ap regen tactic it happen very few times i need to stop and wait my ap regen.

In lot's of sc the only reason why i have less db than sorc it's cos when target have few hp sorc burst steal my DBs :/

Anyeway i still wait until t4 to make changes of these 2 classes.

Posted: **Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:40 pm**

foof wrote:
Zxul wrote:
There is no way to change it- if you add to magus the sorc dps, then why would anybody want to play a sorc? From other hand, give sorc magus's secondary tools- and why would anybody want to play magus?
There are plenty of ways to change it without giving Magus/Engie Sorc/BW level DPS. Obviously giving them Sorc/BW level DPS is a bad idea. What they always needed was more utility and/or CC.

For instance, the BW having a healing debuff and the Engie not is braindead class design. Yes, lets give the healing debuff to the high damage RDPS and not to the medium damage RDPS. /facepalm

I have played engineer class till rr 80 or so and I can compare it to my expirience from playing magus on RoR.

First of all I must point both classes should be SUPPORT DPS class, not the main DPS.

If I compare engineer with magus from support wise, engineer wins by mile.

Both have AP regen tactic for party/wb for turret/horror.
Both have root, but engineer have tactic which also snare after root is removed. Enginner wins here.
Both have heal, but while magus is selfish insta self heal with 60! seconds cooldown, enginner has nice HoT for all allies in range(not only party or WB) with CD of 30s which means his healing keg can be summoned before his 30lifetime ends which also mean its nearly never ending HoT. If You imagine 3-4 engineers running with keg in zerg or warband its quet a strong portion of healing for the realm. Engineer wins here by a mile.
Both have ranged AOE stagger (mine)
Both have stagger removal for party.
Both have AOE knockdown sklil for theyr turret/horror.
Both have AOE pull(magnet)
Both have elemental or corporal rezist buff for party(doesnt stack with other rezist buffs from Kotbs/chosen, Zealot/RP,AM or shammy)
So summary is: AOE knockdown, AOE stagger, Root, AP regen, Rezist buff, AOE pull, heal for realm members( engineer) and snare(engineer)
Edit: Does engineers 15% critical chance from tactic for turret also works for healing keg?

Engineer definitely wins here.

DPS wise:
thanks to fact, that enginner have some skills based on physical dmg he can A) stack only balistic and focus on grenadier/tinkerer spec or B) has to stack weapon sklil to increase DPS potential.
Magus has spells based on inteligence so all he must is stack for intelect to increase his dmg. Magus wins here.
Now in T2 engineer has higher dmg outpoot thanks to fact, that his dmg is counted with weapon DPS, while all other classes(Sorc, Bight wizard,Magus, DPS Zealot, DPS Runepriest, DPS Archmage, DPS Shamman) has no weapon dmg calculation for theyr attack.
Magus damage is verry sustain compared to high burst of BW or Sorc. Same with engineer except 2 things.
Engineer outdps everything with all Dots up and popping Morale 2. With morale 2 he became nightmare of warbands especialy now in T2. In T4 is not that big deal. He also has the highest dmg deal Morale 3 which makes him finisher of tanks or other verry tanky classes like healing DoK.
Even engineer has better M2 and M3 I would call magus wins this competition.

Survivability:
Both can be quiet tanky.
Both have armor self buff( Should stack with armor pots DEVS!)
Magus has selfish self heal 60s, engineer has sustained HoT for everyone 30s.
Magus has absorb racial tactic, Engineer has armor racial tactic.

I would call engineer is winner here thanks to keg as sustain source of HP regen with lower cooldown.

Edit:
I dont know why they have only light armor/robe when they are meant to be in front line(medium range) dps/support.
Logicaly I would give them both medium armor. Why? They are not glass canon with ultra dmg like BW/Sorc and they are not as mobile as SW, SH.

Engineer and magus are not bad classes. They are quiet enjoyable, but sad that original devs didnt spent more time to tweak them, because there is lot of room for improvements.
Making theyr pets insta cast without need of that tactic will be first step in right direction.

My conclusion is engineer is like most of order classes more usefull for group than magus. Its the healing keg which is also source of nice hp regen and leech

) and the snare tactic after root removal. Also high burst with M2 or strong finisher M3 with armor debuff.

Return of Reckoning

[Magus, Engineer] Buff like in never released patch 1.4.9

Re: [Magus, Engineer] Buff like in never released patch 1.4.

Re: [Magus, Engineer] Buff like in never released patch 1.4.

Re: [Magus, Engineer] Buff like in never released patch 1.4.

Re: [Magus, Engineer] Buff like in never released patch 1.4.

Re: [Magus, Engineer] Buff like in never released patch 1.4.

Re: [Magus, Engineer] Buff like in never released patch 1.4.

Re: [Magus, Engineer] Buff like in never released patch 1.4.

Re: [Magus, Engineer] Buff like in never released patch 1.4.

Re: [Magus, Engineer] Buff like in never released patch 1.4.

Re: [Magus, Engineer] Buff like in never released patch 1.4.