Return of Reckoning

ok i got that and someone can explain me briefly how it works?
and concerni rifleman? is that bad as spec? snipe skill looks promising.

Asherdoom wrote:ok i got that and someone can explain me briefly how it works?
and concerni rifleman? is that bad as spec? snipe skill looks promising.

rifle is not bad, but it is not also good.

If you are roaming, doing small scale, and have a good position and a little support you can do a lot if you pick the right targets.

But it doesn't work well in mobile warband play where you can't stand and spam as much, and dps is more AoE focused. It also doesn't in a premade setting since you cannot stand and spam either. Once a melee train is on you, set back kills any dps, and kiting means you provide no real dps since you can't use your core abilities.

Armor also becomes a big factor since no amount of WS stacking will help you with tanks, maras, doks, and armor tali stacking healers. You will face a constant 75%-60% mitigation on everything non corp, even with 900ws.

Being a stationary dps only works when you have the safety to do it via concealment, or support, and when you can actually do enough damage to make it worth while. Right now you can spike unguarded squishes, and an overextended or two, but facing a tight group, or when put into a mobile situation fighting an enemy kiter. Rifle just doesn't work.

If you play a lot of premades you need to bunker down, and you will fight the current kity mara comp every premade almost. Your only choice is to go tinker really, it has the best burst since grenade is largely useless fluff.

Aye Armor Tinkerer or DPS Tinkerer are the current dwarven queens of the battlefield.

ok and concerning tinkerer? how i should play it?> and stats? i see plenty of my sets get weapon skill and ballistic :O

As mentioned there are two basic directions for tinkerer:

Armor tinkerer uses armor tactic, armor talis and the resistance ToK 3 jewel set that gives resistance as well as armor.
Your belt is passwatch belt.
Renown is Daft defender and initiative boost. Some pages ago Skori made a buildlist for such a tinkerer.

DPS tinkerer is Crit tactic and damage in 45 feet tactic. Talis are BS.
Renown is Crit and BS. But stay below BS softcap.
You are a glasscannon but do terrific damage on friction burn with m2 damage boost. There builds and specs for Dps tinkerer some pages ago by lastalien.

I have made some more detailed builds on tinkerer. But that is guild internal information.

The tinker spec has been cowered 4 times, if not more, over in this very thread.

But lets go one more time.

Offensive;

Gear and talis focused to max out DMG bonus, overflow into def, either armor/tou.

RR mainly in crit then avoidance.

Main trick is to keep your turret stacks as high as possible at all times. Then you you either;

A) Run in with AB -> RDeploy -> FB -> LR -> BB/SD spam, then reapply/redeploy FB and LR once they are off CD unless everything is dead already.
B) Magnet on top of FT -> FB -> LR -> BB/SD spam.

You can use Strafing run as aoe KB if enemy is very close to an edge / soft tank line breaker [the punt is minimal] or just as filler aoe dmg. It has significant delay from initial cast to actual dmg so may be layered on top of other insta cast abis like BB or SD to create a micro spike moment. But as it gives immunities and can displace enemies from intended aoe pressure spot should be used sparingly and/or with prior consideration/care.

In both cases you want flame turret to be on top of you with as many stacks as possible for both bigger DMG modifier and ranged avoidance buff.

Ofc this exact setup is meant to be only deployed if you have both guard and heals or very good heals.

Defensive/support

Lets be honest this build is gonna be you stepping down as dps and assuming a "lets be extremely annoying to enemy yet still useful to the group bastard" stance. If you have more ppl interested to assume such a role in your grp/wb, you can spread the utility tactics and slot some more def/dps focused ones on yourself. No WB should have more than two pierce def/concussive mines engis IMO for example. Some tac can be left out if one of grp mates is already covering it. [healers/ib with ap tac for turrent ap / SW already running pierce def / ST disorients] So the exact tactics layout depends on scale / purpose /comp of GRP/WB.

Gear and Talis should be focused towards def - mainly armor as you will be having much easier time against range due to the flame turrent dodge/disrupt buff, RR in mainly in avoidance, leftovers may go into crit or rr abis.

Then you mainly;
A) Act as a Magnet Bot
B) Act as debuffer
C) Provide an weak off Heal
D) Create a distraction and gather enemy hate
E) Mix of some of A/B/C/D
F) Mix of all from A/B/C/D

Ability usage wise you gonna spend most of your time spreading AB, throwing mines on enemy back lines, keeping keg and turrent near your friendlies and generally being a nuisance to the enemy. You can add in some dps using pretty much the same rotations as offensive one but with much less umf to it.

This setup is more friendly towards your survival chances and you provide decent amount of support but don't be surprised if you don't contribute much in the pure dps compartment. In the end it is nice to have but should be only added into the comp if you already have some decent dps pressure going for your grp/wb.

Nothing more to say , you guys said it all.
Playing as a tinkerer is harder if you're not in a wb/grp

Since keg nerf , you got less impact on Healing a wb .

Imo both tinkerer and grenadier path need some review , but we have to wait for balance forum to be up again .

I have many idea to propose for tinkerer path and grenadier as well .

I want take inspiration with some skaven ability , and I rather see more support/mine tool for tinkerer .

To me , tinkerer could be the one that can put some trap on sièges weapons , keep door , debuff/buff siege weapon .

Having different mines with different effect could Be something interesting to work with .

Some tactic are not good : of you want to increase castime you also give a immune to your target (stun) , if you want to snare zone you also give an immune (root) .

Why not make barble wire a snare instead of a root and when slot tangling wire tactic this snare also gives damages on the move (something like gutter runner skaven) ?

Grunbag wrote:Nothing more to say , you guys said it all.
Playing as a tinkerer is harder if you're not in a wb/grp

Since keg nerf , you got less impact on Healing a wb .

Imo both tinkerer and grenadier path need some review , but we have to wait for balance forum to be up again .

I have many idea to propose for tinkerer path and grenadier as well .

I want take inspiration with some skaven ability , and I rather see more support/mine tool for tinkerer .

To me , tinkerer could be the one that can put some trap on sièges weapons , keep door , debuff/buff siege weapon .

Having different mines with different effect could Be something interesting to work with .

Some tactic are not good : of you want to increase castime you also give a immune to your target (stun) , if you want to snare zone you also give an immune (root) .

Why not make barble wire a snare instead of a root and when slot tangling wire tactic this snare also gives damages on the move (something like gutter runner skaven) ?

To be honest if blunderbuss was corp. Tinker would be extremely close to fine. Its the utter crap of our mixed damage types, and our inability to overcome high armor mitigation that is killing us as a dps, stationary issues aside.

Grenade needs a lot of work however, and it's going to be hard to see any real fix with the simple fact that there is not a solid ability in the tree at all. Firebomb is an AP hog that does nothing but fluff when fighting a decent enemy group. Spike is life, and grenade has none.

Hello there Tsourkas here if you want. A decent rifleman spec do dis. http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=eng ... 652:3646:0:

Start with putting on your turret well oiled mach tactic will help you then use signal flare and inciendary rounds gun blast focus fire rip squishes

Also for set take 6bl parts for the initiative reduce (kinky crits will melt every1) and 3 conqueror or merc your choise as for rr use cleansing winds 2 or 3 prefare level 3 couse many sorc/squigs on rvr zones and rest for range crit ws

Karast wrote:

Grunbag wrote:Nothing more to say , you guys said it all.
Playing as a tinkerer is harder if you're not in a wb/grp

Since keg nerf , you got less impact on Healing a wb .

Imo both tinkerer and grenadier path need some review , but we have to wait for balance forum to be up again .

I have many idea to propose for tinkerer path and grenadier as well .

I want take inspiration with some skaven ability , and I rather see more support/mine tool for tinkerer .

To me , tinkerer could be the one that can put some trap on sièges weapons , keep door , debuff/buff siege weapon .

Having different mines with different effect could Be something interesting to work with .

Some tactic are not good : of you want to increase castime you also give a immune to your target (stun) , if you want to snare zone you also give an immune (root) .

Why not make barble wire a snare instead of a root and when slot tangling wire tactic this snare also gives damages on the move (something like gutter runner skaven) ?

To be honest if blunderbuss was corp. Tinker would be extremely close to fine. Its the utter crap of our mixed damage types, and our inability to overcome high armor mitigation that is killing us as a dps, stationary issues aside.

Grenade needs a lot of work however, and it's going to be hard to see any real fix with the simple fact that there is not a solid ability in the tree at all. Firebomb is an AP hog that does nothing but fluff when fighting a decent enemy group. Spike is life, and grenade has none.

I can understand why BB is normal damage . In original dev logic , gun damage are normal and grenade damage are corp .

But yes in fact there is a lack of big ability in both tinkerer and grenadier path then .

What makes sorc/BW better on their aoe build that engineer aoe doesn't have ? Crit ? Direct aoe damage?
Then why don't give +15% crit in grenadier tree and give a toughness tactic to tinkerer tree (like magus right tree) instead ?