Re: [Engineer] The Workshop (builds, guides, and discussion)
Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:09 pm
by Karast
Grunbag wrote:
Karast wrote:
Grunbag wrote:Nothing more to say , you guys said it all.
Playing as a tinkerer is harder if you're not in a wb/grp
Since keg nerf , you got less impact on Healing a wb .
Imo both tinkerer and grenadier path need some review , but we have to wait for balance forum to be up again .
I have many idea to propose for tinkerer path and grenadier as well .
I want take inspiration with some skaven ability , and I rather see more support/mine tool for tinkerer .
To me , tinkerer could be the one that can put some trap on sièges weapons , keep door , debuff/buff siege weapon .
Having different mines with different effect could Be something interesting to work with .
Some tactic are not good : of you want to increase castime you also give a immune to your target (stun) , if you want to snare zone you also give an immune (root) .
Why not make barble wire a snare instead of a root and when slot tangling wire tactic this snare also gives damages on the move (something like gutter runner skaven) ?
To be honest if blunderbuss was corp. Tinker would be extremely close to fine. Its the utter crap of our mixed damage types, and our inability to overcome high armor mitigation that is killing us as a dps, stationary issues aside.
Grenade needs a lot of work however, and it's going to be hard to see any real fix with the simple fact that there is not a solid ability in the tree at all. Firebomb is an AP hog that does nothing but fluff when fighting a decent enemy group. Spike is life, and grenade has none.
I can understand why BB is normal damage . In original dev logic , gun damage are normal and grenade damage are corp .
But yes in fact there is a lack of big ability in both tinkerer and grenadier path then .
What makes sorc/BW better on their aoe build that engineer aoe doesn't have ? Crit ? Direct aoe damage?
Then why don't give +15% crit in grenadier tree and give a toughness tactic to tinkerer tree (like magus right tree) instead ?
Direct damage abilities, and instant abilities. Grenade tree is a bunch of weak aoe dots that scale horribly with both stats, and take a huge mitigation via toughness.
It is the difference from hitting for 200 and 1200. No amount of tactic swaps is really going to address how bad the dots are. And armor as a mitigation stat is just broken right now. There is also no AoE armor debuff on order side to even pretend to try to make it work.
Killing in this game is about spike, and you just can't spike with weak dots, and abilities that eat 75-90% mitigation, when you take into account armor + toughness.
Re: [Engineer] The Workshop (builds, guides, and discussion)
Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:29 pm
by BreezeKicker
Spoiler:
Grunbag wrote:
Karast wrote:
Grunbag wrote:Nothing more to say , you guys said it all.
Playing as a tinkerer is harder if you're not in a wb/grp
Since keg nerf , you got less impact on Healing a wb .
Imo both tinkerer and grenadier path need some review , but we have to wait for balance forum to be up again .
I have many idea to propose for tinkerer path and grenadier as well .
I want take inspiration with some skaven ability , and I rather see more support/mine tool for tinkerer .
To me , tinkerer could be the one that can put some trap on sièges weapons , keep door , debuff/buff siege weapon .
Having different mines with different effect could Be something interesting to work with .
Some tactic are not good : of you want to increase castime you also give a immune to your target (stun) , if you want to snare zone you also give an immune (root) .
Why not make barble wire a snare instead of a root and when slot tangling wire tactic this snare also gives damages on the move (something like gutter runner skaven) ?
To be honest if blunderbuss was corp. Tinker would be extremely close to fine. Its the utter crap of our mixed damage types, and our inability to overcome high armor mitigation that is killing us as a dps, stationary issues aside.
Grenade needs a lot of work however, and it's going to be hard to see any real fix with the simple fact that there is not a solid ability in the tree at all. Firebomb is an AP hog that does nothing but fluff when fighting a decent enemy group. Spike is life, and grenade has none.
I can understand why BB is normal damage . In original dev logic , gun damage are normal and grenade damage are corp .
But yes in fact there is a lack of big ability in both tinkerer and grenadier path then .
What makes sorc/BW better on their aoe build that engineer aoe doesn't have ? Crit ? Direct aoe damage?
Then why don't give +15% crit in grenadier tree and give a toughness tactic to tinkerer tree (like magus right tree) instead ?
BW has 35% crit and 100% crit dmg for free from mechanic, all abilities actually working of resists -> Mostly elemental [therefore only having to worry about 2 stat to max out for dmg purposes -> INT and MP] and finally good mix of both overtime and hard hitting direct aoe skills. They also have flash fire [insta cast on disrupt -> must have for AoE purposes] and wildfire [pretty much BWs hollow points equivalent but on 25% proc chance, working of more than 2 abis and AoE able, can crit as well].
Re: [Engineer] The Workshop (builds, guides, and discussion)
Posted: Tue May 02, 2017 9:23 pm
by BuckFiddy
I'm currently not anywhere near rank 40 but was wondering how I should be playing my engi while leveling? Seems like rifle is good initially but tinker is king overall. In your opinion, should I be getting used to the tinker playstyle right away or is there better options while leveling since I obviously wouldn't have appropriate gear?
So much info to take in all at once in here (which is awesome btw), so I'm taking my time trying to absorb as much as I can.
Re: [Engineer] The Workshop (builds, guides, and discussion)
Posted: Tue May 02, 2017 9:26 pm
by Daknallbomb
BuckFiddy wrote:I'm currently not anywhere near rank 40 but was wondering how I should be playing my engi while leveling? Seems like rifle is good initially but tinker is king overall. In your opinion, should I be getting used to the tinker playstyle right away or is there better options while leveling since I obviously wouldn't have appropriate gear?
So much info to take in all at once in here (which is awesome btw), so I'm taking my time trying to absorb as much as I can.
Me As stupid pve Level man have done it As tinkerer was easier lower down Times and i Finisher solo pqs
Re: [Engineer] The Workshop (builds, guides, and discussion)
Posted: Tue May 02, 2017 9:38 pm
by Glorian
Grinding with rifle is easy to kill champions which are two levels above you which give massive XP.
Or you could simply put out the flame turret and kill a lot of low lvl mobs.
Either way, get the Keg as fast as possible to reduce down times in grinding.
With a keg you can kill non stop.
Re: [Engineer] The Workshop (builds, guides, and discussion)
Posted: Tue May 02, 2017 9:55 pm
by BuckFiddy
Currently I've been having trouble dealing with any PQs with champs as rifle, so I've been sticking to PQ stages where the task is to kill like 40 regular mobs lol. I'm only rank 18 right now so I'll be messing around and seeing how I can optimize my playstyle. Thanks for the tips.
On an unrelated note, the 3rd Bitterstone Thunderers seem pretty damn cool.
Re: [Engineer] The Workshop (builds, guides, and discussion)
Posted: Wed May 03, 2017 12:36 am
by Glorian
BuckFiddy wrote:...
On an unrelated note, the 3rd Bitterstone Thunderers seem pretty damn cool.
That is the idea.
Re: [Engineer] The Workshop (builds, guides, and discussion)
Posted: Wed May 03, 2017 4:54 am
by Karast
BuckFiddy wrote:Currently I've been having trouble dealing with any PQs with champs as rifle, so I've been sticking to PQ stages where the task is to kill like 40 regular mobs lol. I'm only rank 18 right now so I'll be messing around and seeing how I can optimize my playstyle. Thanks for the tips.
On an unrelated note, the 3rd Bitterstone Thunderers seem pretty damn cool.
Try to start the fight from max range and once you get either the knock back or disarm they will help you a lot. From max range you should be able to get a gunblast, hipshot, and then either the knock back or disarm off and drop an even level champ down to around 50% if you got okay gear.
Re: [Engineer] The Workshop (builds, guides, and discussion)
Posted: Wed May 03, 2017 5:27 am
by BuckFiddy
Thanks for the tips. I'm working my way towards crack shot now, so I should hopefully have that disarm soon. Should I get stopping power for the knockback on hip shot, or do you mean the morale ability? I don't think I have access to any other knockback, at least at my level.
Re: [Engineer] The Workshop (builds, guides, and discussion)
Posted: Wed May 03, 2017 12:23 pm
by Karast
BuckFiddy wrote:Thanks for the tips. I'm working my way towards crack shot now, so I should hopefully have that disarm soon. Should I get stopping power for the knockback on hip shot, or do you mean the morale ability? I don't think I have access to any other knockback, at least at my level.
You get a kb from grenade later on. I wouldn't go for stopping power. The distance on it is pretty awful. Better to keep HP available as a dps tool than as CC. It is vital for a gunblast / snipe rotation.
