Return of Reckoning

This problem of 2h just being better in smallscale because they can parry so much guard damage can be fixed other ways.

Keep guard at 50%
Halve avoidance for guard damage.
Make avoidance additive for guard checks.

2h guard is still as effective but take more guard damage than snb. Then you dont have crossguarded 2h running around avoiding all that guard damage. snb still have their higher avoidance from additive checks.

Telen wrote: ↑Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:35 am This problem of 2h just being better in smallscale because they can parry so much guard damage can be fixed other ways.

Keep guard at 50%
Halve avoidance for guard damage.
Make avoidance additive for guard checks.

2h guard is still as effective but take more guard damage than snb. Then you dont have crossguarded 2h running around avoiding all that guard damage. snb still have their higher avoidance from additive checks.

Explain to me how guard damage works with SnB vs with only a 2H, because it dont think you understand it...

Smellybelly wrote: ↑Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:39 am Explain to me how guard damage works with SnB vs with only a 2H, because it dont think you understand it...

Guard damage comes from the guard ability. It just goes against avoidance. Block then Parry. Then goes through mitigation.
So if you have a 2h with 50% parry they will avoid 50%. A snb with 50% parry 30% block will avoid 65%.

Telen wrote: ↑Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:53 am

Smellybelly wrote: ↑Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:39 am Explain to me how guard damage works with SnB vs with only a 2H, because it dont think you understand it...

Guard damage comes from the guard ability. It just goes against avoidance. Block then Parry. Then goes through mitigation.
So if you have a 2h with 50% parry they will avoid 50%. A snb with 50% parry 30% block will avoid 65%.

Almost right but not quite.
You dont add the % , 2 separate rolls so you cant claim that you will avoid 65% of all inc dmg from guard, you may succeed on one of the rolls or you dont. Secondly, the guard damage that goes through is NOT mitigated by your toughness/resist or armor. If you guard a squishy target who gets high dmg, you as a tank who guard him/her will recieve much higher dmg. Wich incidently also means you would do well to bring a shield if your assigned guard target is a little glasscannon

Smellybelly wrote: ↑Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:57 am

Telen wrote: ↑Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:53 am

Smellybelly wrote: ↑Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:39 am Explain to me how guard damage works with SnB vs with only a 2H, because it dont think you understand it...

Guard damage comes from the guard ability. It just goes against avoidance. Block then Parry. Then goes through mitigation.
So if you have a 2h with 50% parry they will avoid 50%. A snb with 50% parry 30% block will avoid 65%.

Almost right but not quite.
You dont add the % , 2 separate rolls so you cant claim that you will avoid 65% of all inc dmg from guard, you may succeed on one of the rolls or you dont. Secondly, the guard damage that goes through is NOT mitigated by your toughness/resist or armor. If you guard a squishy target who gets high dmg, you as a tank who guard him/her will recieve much higher dmg.

I dont agree with single point of Telen with regard to Guard changes, BUT, here is what he says:
1) you have 50% chance to avoid damage by block, it leaves you 50% chance to be hit after first roll;
2) This 50% chance to hit faces 30% chance to be parried (30% out of 50% gives you 15%).

In the end your overall chance to avoid damage is 65 (50+15), it is just sum of probabilities, even as it is 2 separate rolls.

Edit: Fixing obvious errors.

He means that you avoid 65 % of the times you suffer guard damage obviously, which is correct.

Ok i get what you mean but i feel it simplifies the whole thing beyond its actual meaning. You get one roll 1-100 vs your block value of 50%, if that fails you do not get a second roll with 50 vs your parry of 30%. You simply get another 1-100 vs 30%.

You get a 50% chance to fail the first one and a 70% chance to fail the second.
Adding it to 65% is meh...

It is not "meh". It is the probability.

Smellybelly wrote: ↑Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:05 pm Ok i get what you mean but i feel it simplifies the whole thing beyond its actual meaning. You get one roll 1-100 vs your block value of 50%, if that fails you do not get a second roll with 50 vs your parry of 30%. You simply get another 1-100 vs 30%.

You get a 50% chance to fail the first one and a 70% chance to fail the second.
Adding it to 65% is meh...

https://www.mathgoodies.com/lessons/vol6/addition_rules

Smellybelly wrote: ↑Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:57 am Almost right but not quite.
You dont add the % , 2 separate rolls so you cant claim that you will avoid 65% of all inc dmg from guard, you may succeed on one of the rolls or you dont. Secondly, the guard damage that goes through is NOT mitigated by your toughness/resist or armor. If you guard a squishy target who gets high dmg, you as a tank who guard him/her will recieve much higher dmg.

Yeah I get they aren't additive. Additive checks would be 50% + 30% = 80%. Multiplicative as they are on ror 50% x (30% x 50%) = 65%.

Which is why keeping 50% and switching the way avoidance is handled would stretch this gap between how much each avoided while still keeping guards effectiveness.

Im just trying to find a way that fixes the issues that this change is aimed at and makes snb guard much better but doesnt throw 2h guard under the bus.