Return of Reckoning

It wasnt that the detaunt was aoe that was the issue. It was its 100% uptime. Its like having a free guard constantly. If you have a half decent tank even if undetaunted ranged get on you the tank has enough time to slap a guard on till your cd is up. Compare that with what other more squish classes get 5s on a 30s cooldown. That was the flaw having a tactic turn a st ranged caster detaunt with its much better uptime into an aoe. Really the class needs a aoe detaunt with the appropriate uptime. Maybe turn the tactic into a copy of walk between worlds for melee.

im impressed with you guys for patience of reading these walls of text, I tried but after page 3 or 4 gave up
Just a word of incoragement/thanks to you guys who putting forward reasonable arguments while not forgetting Azarel is reading all these walls of text and comming back with with reasoned arguments.

Telen wrote:It wasnt that the detaunt was aoe that was the issue. It was its 100% uptime. Its like having a free guard constantly. If you have a half decent tank even if undetaunted ranged get on you the tank has enough time to slap a guard on till your cd is up. Compare that with what other more squish classes get 5s on a 30s cooldown. That was the flaw having a tactic turn a st ranged caster detaunt with its much better uptime into an aoe. Really the class needs a aoe detaunt with the appropriate uptime. Maybe turn the tactic into a copy of walk between worlds for melee.

This is true on most part only for wp, which have no RKD to face and can range aoe detaunt while dok get rkd before it can even do anything and before get up you are dead if you get no guard. When you can detaunt you can only detaunt ppl around you.....
WP will pre detaunt dok cant. wp dont have 2x rkd to face, dok have. For alot of indirect reasons wp had always been better than dok generally.

But dok have a heal debuff tactic, who trig everytime, and done much dps.

I think now, dok and wp are balance, even if the 50% less armor i quite to strong in armor prayer.

Suggestion from me. U can change feetrarange of aoe heal skills in certain prayers. For example : healmode - fullrange, dpsheal 50% less, dps - cant use any aoe heal and divine assault or divine assault dont heal anyone.

I think now with the current changes and the new chalise Soul essence regenaration DoK and WP roles are much more clearer.
You want to be Melee healer or backline healer or dps? now you have the tools to play that part.
So far from testing the whole exp mode work fine at least that's my opinion.

Thanks for all the effort Devs and Aza and keep up on good work.

Korthian DoK of Phalanx

maykie wrote:Suggestion from me. U can change feetrarange of aoe heal skills in certain prayers. For example : healmode - fullrange, dpsheal 50% less, dps - cant use any aoe heal and divine assault or divine assault dont heal anyone.

Not sure if trolling or completely biased!?

"If you have an alternative suggestion to increase the skill requirement given what the class has, feel free to venture it"

It seems like the melee healing is working ok, as is the DPS fix. But I'd like to see the pure healing side of the WP/DoK adjusted to separate how it functions from the other "back line healers" to make it a front line/medium range healer.

- Remove passive regen from book/chalice
- Reduce the range of Touch of the Divine/Pious Restoration/Divine Light (+DoK equivalents) to 70ft(ish)
- Reduce the range of Healing Hand/Divine Aid (+DoK equivalents) to 100ft(ish)
- Incorporate the Fueled Fury tactic into Prayer of Absolution/Tenacity (maybe buff it a little though, 25% proc chance, 50 RF/SE, 2 second internal cooldown?)
- While Prayer of Absolution/Tenacity is active all melee abilities that regen RF/SE regain 10 additional points than normal

Now the WP/DoK has to be in the front line to heal effectively, but the skill level is increased because good positioning becomes even more vital to effectively heal. You wouldn't be able to sit in the back because righteous fury regen would be too slow and your heals would not have the range. It also makes having medium armour more logical, because you need to take hits to regen fury faster.

It would add an interesting risk v reward dynamic. You want those fast cast aoe heals, you have get up close and take some hits to be able to do it. But you might get focused, CC'd or debuffed while doing it.

Did you even tryied play that way a dok and a dok not a wp?
Ccould work for a wp, that can range detaunt 9 rdps and have no rkd, because i play like this from live when i can and, unless you are ingored, is a death sentence you're self put above you.

Appart the rec source be it chalice /book or sword/hammer, first thing first if they front line like their melee counterpart then they need chalice /book to give dual weild, second dok/wp have no anti cc or heal debuff tools, plus caster suffer from set back and cast time increase.

You cant only force them into melee range with out give them the apporpriate tools.
To force em into more close distance the only solution is nerf and only those ST healing range, because aoe-g heals cannot be spam into backline as you're rec is melee oriented and you cant be badder than other healer when g-heals ppl that ninja keep. Second their def meccanic is not detaunt, every healer have acces to a form more or less good or more or less possible to use at anytime of aoe detaunt. Their def meccanic is the abosrb tactic on the first path, which added to the detaunt make em durable. This mean thay need an immunity to set back.
There is no healer in every game that is also a melee hitter that suffer from something as the warhammer set back or the D&D concentraiton check for exemple, melee healers always ignore stuff like this for obvious reasons. (D&D for exemple have feats that allow front line caster to ingore concentration checks).
Also due to how war cc works, all cc on them should get halved because no spam = no rec / no aborbs shield or no both

i would really like to only have the option to always front line/medium line caster instead back line caster but is not viable and is even worst than order on destru side. That's why at lest 1 rkd should be give to a class like the magus. And that togheter with crit stack and CD decrease/increase are and were the main problem in realm balance which also make problematic balance these classes.
An aoe/g heal spammer in front line get rekt the second he can't spam anymore his main skil which his main def meccanic is linked to.
The aoe detaunt is there because be a front line healer tank can't double guard and so the detaunt should be 100% active which is either not true, becuase you need to not be KDed to use the detaunt or stag/silenced.

Quite frankly all ppl want caster dok/wp nerfed to the ground instead fix em into a proper role both as a melee hitter either oriented to heal/do damages, or medium/frontline caster most of melee dok/wp comment on the matter prove it.
The actual regen rate of chalice is absurd in wb vs wb situation where is like have sov proc, and it allow me to front line like in live but if i get st focussed i going down pretty fast which should not happed if the class is requried to front line 100% of the time.
The ttk should be so long for a front line caster that the enemy should choose instead spread enemy trying to kill em in out of los or either fast swap the focus to put in crise the healer which can only heal aoe and have some long CD st heals, which dok/wp in fact have as 1 st 5 sec cd heal.
Also the cost of the heals is out of proportion for a class that is required to first spam then think because if not everything die.
Detaunt and guard have nothing to do with player skill and class balance, they are core elements that balance game damages and power creep into the game, of course is 100% active if you need to front line, it's even bad you need to detaunt and can only detaun 9 ppl jeez, should be like zealot/rune flat damage reduction of 50% not stackable with guard but instead of 3 min CD always active. That should be what the currently armor buff does because dok/wp need or should requrei to spam stationary and you cant kite. You kill front lien catser when the party is forced to kite because they cant heal on the move not while they are stationary.

-50% damages , cc effect on you ,cd reduction effect and x% heals less.

Copy pasting my proposal from the gameplay forums.

I started leveling my disciple before I was aware of the experimental mode, personally I like the experimental mode however some things need to be adjusted to calculate for how the stances work for lower level players.

My suggestion is that the wp/dok get their auras at a much earlier level similar to the marauder mutations. Receiving covenant of vitality at level 4, activating it and only to find out that the only thing it does is lower your damage by 50% seems a little intimidating to new players or people wanting to level alts, not using the skill at all also seems a little bit off. Abilities that are affected by it are received at very large level gaps, level 6 and level 30.

It is possible that the DPS stance auras may be a little bit strong for the lower levels, especially celerity with the snares, and I'm not sure if theres anything possible to do from a technical point of view here, getting Transfer Essence at a low level could possibly help fix it.