Return of Reckoning

Ruin wrote: Tue Jul 22, 2025 9:26 am

Illuminati wrote: Mon Jul 21, 2025 10:02 pm heck, a mechanic tweak would make Slayer/Choppa more desirable. Destro plays Choppa because it needs to, but Order has a choice between a character that requires almost dedicated healing/guard/cc to support vs one you don't have to babysit. Unless you're going for some killboard monthly.

Destro also have choices, the choppa/mara is the obvous one, but the mSH is also a very potent WB mdps.

The part you may not get (no offense) is WL usability in every scenario of gameplay atm. I can run a 6x person roam with it, WB with it, solo with it, SC with it, and everything else. It works really well with Tanky front line + pounce in execute role and escape if things go bad or top tier AOE.

The mix of mobility, burst, AoE, utility all in one class is the problem. The RoR team can either bring a whole bunch of classes up to equal viability, which would be too hard for a small team, or reduce the capabilities of one class so optionality occurs.

There has been a number of solutions offered to hot fix this problem in this thread. The WL in its current form made sense when the pop was 55-60% destro vs 40-45% order. It's been 55%+> order at peak times during the day for some time now.

I appreciate everyone responding , I don't want to be that guy crying about some class because I died. It has been repeated deaths over years and trying everything to adapt.. but still the WL is just so broken and it gets very frustrating to have to deal with it. And there are just so many of them now. I hope I don't have to make this post again in another 6 months

Even more broken is Magus been tankier than tanks and hit 2-3k crits. Only problem with the mentality with nerfing everything is after nothing is fun and there only 1 class left that dominate. Am more for buffing classes to make them great instead of all mediocre and 1 class do decent.

yoluigi wrote: Wed Jul 23, 2025 12:07 am Even more broken is Magus been tankier than tanks and hit 2-3k crits. Only problem with the mentality with nerfing everything is after nothing is fun and there only 1 class left that dominate. Am more for buffing classes to make them great instead of all mediocre and 1 class do decent.

Couldn't agree more with this. quit nerfing dmg like how we and wh went from 50% armor pen to 25%. Mara piercing bite nerfed to 25%, wounds debuf nerfed years ago. buff certain dmg classes to be in line with white lions, or xyz class.

Can we get a nerd in here to test and compare Spinning Axe with Wrecking Ball? The issue seems to be with this one ability, and it should be more or less the same delve with the same stat contribution.

The delves on the career builder are more less the same. Is the issue that Whirling axe is 360 degrees vs frontal cone? The range is 25 ft while Wrecking Ball is 30. The range on a frontal cone should probably be a bigger difference. Maybe 25 ft aoe vs a 40 foot front arc.

Fey wrote: Wed Jul 23, 2025 12:25 am Can we get a nerd in here to test and compare Spinning Axe with Wrecking Ball? The issue seems to be with this one ability, and it should be more or less the same delve with the same stat contribution.

I have done some damage simulations of BIS orvr builds over the last couple months, and in this file you will find both AOE Mara and AOE WL simulated numbers:
Damage simulations
You can find the expected damage of the channels in the "dw DOK vs Mara" and "MSH vs Loner WL" sheets, but I also gathered it together here for your convenience:


Do keep in mind, that I tested the common crit build variants of BIS WL builds (~88% armor penetration) but there are also some full WS variants (that for example the guild Retribution likes to run) which reach 100% arpen and are not present here.

As you can see, Mara's Wrecking Ball does come close to WL's Whirling Axe when both have their 25% dmg bonus buff up, and even does slightly better vs dps classes then. As for healers and tanks, WL channel pretty much always comes out on top, and the differences become even larger when the 25% dmg bonus buffs are off, or when neither class is allowed to crit (due to absorb shields or Absolute Preservation from AM/Shammy)

yoluigi wrote: Wed Jul 23, 2025 12:07 am Only problem with the mentality with nerfing everything is after nothing is fun and there only 1 class left that dominate. Am more for buffing classes to make them great instead of all mediocre and 1 class do decent.

Ok but how do you want to balance this out? I mean, its not only about high dmg and armor penetration, like some people try to break it down here again and again... Its one piece of the cake, but the core problem is, that WL got all abilities to do everything..... How do you want to NOT nerf this? Giving all of these abilities to every melee dps class now, plus everyone get a pet, to create a balance? Its just not possible. And obviously its allready game breaking when one class got the full packet of abilities. All these "WL-cry-threads" are here for reasons.
Generaly i agree with you, that nerf down things should not be the only way to balance things out. But in case of WL its 100% necessary and long overdue.

kleinbuchstabe wrote: Wed Jul 23, 2025 11:16 am

yoluigi wrote: Wed Jul 23, 2025 12:07 am Only problem with the mentality with nerfing everything is after nothing is fun and there only 1 class left that dominate. Am more for buffing classes to make them great instead of all mediocre and 1 class do decent.

Ok but how do you want to balance this out? I mean, its not only about high dmg and armor penetration, like some people try to break it down here again and again... Its one piece of the cake, but the core problem is, that WL got all abilities to do everything..... How do you want to NOT nerf this? Giving all of these abilities to every melee dps class now, plus everyone get a pet, to create a balance? Its just not possible. And obviously its allready game breaking when one class got the full packet of abilities. All these "WL-cry-threads" are here for reasons.
Generaly i agree with you, that nerf down things should not be the only way to balance things out. But in case of WL its 100% necessary and long overdue.

Alright, I think that says it all. Yep, this class needs a nerf (or the others seriously need a proper upgrade). Playing WL right now is like playing DPS AM or a stealthy endurance/regen build — it's basically driving with training wheels.

The pet is broken and should be the place to start...

"Your ability hits namepet for X dmg". I can't even disarm the thing to prevent the pull. The other day one dodged my disarm, then parried it, but it never said blanky, 'your ability'.