Return of Reckoning

Gyurza83 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 04, 2021 11:19 am

steelblade93 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 04, 2021 11:13 am
Thank you for your continued efforts to make sure some people cannot enjoy the game at all.
All those evil dissenters must be utterly crushed so the ranked players can be sure that the little people can see that thier numbers really are legitimate.
Just don't worry about thier three monitors, professional gaming headphones, macro keyboards and 12 button mice. They ARE legit.
I mean I can see thier point, when you spend a few thousand dollars on gaming equipment and some upstart comes along with a freely available peice of software anyone can use to emulate what you spent all that money on, I'd be annoyed too.

I think he's done well. Finally, evil NB cheaters will not offend regular guys using pre-written macros.

Absolutly, now my ghastly, evil, cheating presence has been removed from our guilds dungeon runs they can be safe in the knowledge that no nefarious actions are taking place and everyone really is pressing the right keys at the right time. THAT is the most important thing.

tl;dr:
NB sitation reflects community. Had positive experience with NB. Some arguments for NB. Some heated emotional outbursts. Nostalgia alone can't keep me anymore. Does NB even have a chance to come back?

Full text:
In my opinion the NB situation exactly reflects the attitude of the community I got. Want to be an inclusive community? Yeah right. The RoR community is everything but. People wont even look at you if you don't have RR70+. The majority isn't even willing to help new players out. The best that community can muster are tips as in how to “git gud” fast. This elitist attitude is NOT welcoming. At least there were SOME decent peeps that helped, but few and far between. Tried to carry the torch and help out myself once I got into a better position... but you know.

I played a long time without any Addons at all. Even with a class that is not reliant on many skills to work I just didn't use all. I didn't even bother to clutter my interface with them. It was then, when fate struck me in the form of NB and other Addons. I could finally utilize all skills I had to my disposal. Made one big conditioned sequencer... and fell flat. It DOES NOT work that way. Had to do multiple (some conditioned) sequences mostly with 1-3 Skills and filled my skill bars pretty good anyway. This was such a good improvement to my game experience. I REALLY had fun. Well as much as I could since community still sucks for newbies.

Someone already mentioned that sequencers (even conditioned) are already the norm in games. Yes, that is true: In Aion you could build your own sequences. They even checked for conditions and had forks:



Another example is Tera:
Ok, I can't find a screen that shows it well enough, but I actually played it and now that you could (depending on situation) play it with only one key.


For me NB is a simple QoL Addon. The people crying this is a cheater addon are HEAVILY exaggerating and are as far as I read (I am monitoring this thread since the beginning) misinformed. I am not white knighting for the disabled here, though I really like their argument. Still wouldn't be fair to use it just because it coincides with my side of the argument so disregard that. Actually I don't even think the “underground” use of NB is a problem, because it does not have the impact on the game the “cheater” faction claims. Please stay consistent here guys.
What really makes my blood boil is the smug attitude: If you cant play all the buttons buy a new +INSERT HARDWARE+ and use the makros aka learn to code. Or even better: Get a brain to click more than one button.
What the fuk is wrong with you?
As mentioned before you guys are elitist pricks and NOT AT ALL welcoming as you try to claim.

Yeah I do see parallels to the overall community with the way NB is being handled here. It seems a minority of elite players are dictating how to play the game for everyone. I play the game for fun. I like the PvE part because I really like the Warhammer lore and I did read all the quest texts and I actually wanted to finish and read ALL the quests.
It is the nostalgia that made me start to play again (played AoR). I really liked to feel being part of a horde storming a keep/fort. As if NB miraculously would have changed the outcome of the battle... But the game is old and the mechanics (buttonacrobatics) are tiresome. NB invigorated my desire to play again or rather keep playing. I had to take some time off for RL reasons and was about to come back to get hit like that. It really dampened my enthusiasm to play and was enough to make the only lurking me to write something in here. Right now I am at a crossroads: do I want to continue on nostalgia alone?

Doesn't look good right now and if I bury RoR, it will be for good. This is not and was not intended as an over dramatized good bye letter, though I am sure the “bye bye cheater” post is already in the works after the second paragraph... I hoped that player base would go down so the devs would reconsider. I admit I am a bit selfish in that regard, but as far as I see the numbers didn't go down (enough) to be relevant. Sadly I am not as eloquent as Wargrimnir was in his post,...

wargrimnir wrote: ↑Sun May 30, 2021 5:21 pm [...]

… but I absolutely agree.

My point in all of this: Would the Devs even consider to reinstate NB or is this a closed deal and the whole debate is moot? If it is already a closed matter I would like to know so I know whether to continue to monitor this thread (or RoR in general) or not.

Edit: I don't know why the image is so small in this post so here is a link to the source: https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/aion/ ... Window.png

carthan wrote: ↑Fri Jun 04, 2021 11:29 am tl;dr:

My point in all of this: Would the Devs even consider to reinstate NB or is this a closed deal and the whole debate is moot? If it is already a closed matter I would like to know so I know whether to continue to monitor this thread (or RoR in general) or not.

Yeah that is a point. Having some kind of answer on this would be good, bacause then we could know that basically were not wanted or whatever and just sod off and do something else.

Alfa1986 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 04, 2021 8:11 am 5. NB brokes GCD, and with the help of its ability can be cast faster than designed. I donno.
6. NB was blocked in live, why should it be allowed here. In my mind, it was never banned until the last patch.

5 False
6 False

Paura wrote: ↑Fri Jun 04, 2021 11:39 am

Alfa1986 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 04, 2021 8:11 am 5. NB brokes GCD, and with the help of its ability can be cast faster than designed. I donno.
6. NB was blocked in live, why should it be allowed here. In my mind, it was never banned until the last patch.

5 False
6 False

You broke my world, in which only ponies live, they eat rainbows and poop with butterflies. I always thought that I was defeated only because the NB allowed to bypass the GCD. (((

This thread is now 56 pages long, making it longer than 55 patch notes thread where the infamous 25% 2h guard change had been made (later reverted) but as of now removal of NB is the most controversial change ever made on this server.

nonfactor wrote: ↑Fri Jun 04, 2021 12:00 pm This thread is now 56 pages long, making it longer than 55 patch notes thread where the infamous 25% 2h guard change had been made (later reverted) but as of now removal of NB is the most controversial change ever made on this server.

Because this is the best change ever! And many are in a hurry to express their admiration for the sagacity of the developers. That is why there are so many messages here. )

Drys wrote: ↑Fri Jun 04, 2021 10:36 am

Omegus wrote: ↑Fri Jun 04, 2021 9:53 am
How exactly do you reduce the number of buttons without setting any conditions on when the buttons should and should not be pressed? Activting an ability when off cooldown is a conditional check (the condition being the cooldown), activating an ability if its buff/debuff has dropped off is a conditional check, activating an ability if "enabled" (e.g. Rage level high enough or in the right stance) is a conditional check, and so on.

You're right.

• Changing action bar based on stance is a *conditional* -- ban Plan B

• Casting a skill based on selected target is a *conditional* -- ban Enemy (this one is actually closest to cheating)

Not to mention automatically saying something in chat when you use a skill -- ban think out loud...

The issue I have is that only *some* addons giving an *advantage* were banned, but not all. Either go all in or none at all...

What am I right about? I was asking questions.

Some automation has always been allowed - the game has built-in support for action bar switching for some classes based on stance and PlanB just extends that to the other 2 stance characters.

Basically, the devs decided NerfedButtons did too much on behalf of the player. Even back on line Mythic took steps to ban some addons that automated too much - the main set of addons that were nuked back then was the ability to target anyone just by name (RIP the /target command).

An all or nothing approach is ridiculous and you know it.

Gyurza83 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 04, 2021 10:05 am

Omegus wrote: ↑Fri Jun 04, 2021 9:56 am I've sent a few workarounds to the dev team which have since been patched, but I'm not sure if all of the fixes have actually gone live yet as some required a number of hooks to be added to stop the workaround and to stop the fix from being undone. There's probably been others sending in work-around reports as well. Don't freak out if you find a workaround - just send it to the devs

How can we be sure that you sent all the workarounds you found to the developers, and did not leave a couple for yourself? I think everyone will agree that in order to avoid temptations and possible accusations, it is best to ban you forever.

Noooooooooooooo :'(. On a serious note, on my Zealot the only thing I would've considered using NB for was the easy binding of Harbinger On - Stagger - Harbinger Off to one button (still 3 presses) to get a slightly higher anti-disrupt on it by casting it with a bit more willpower. My 2-button mid-20s Choppa doesn't get touched anymore and the devs ruined my favourite SH tree (right) so RIP that too.

The addons I might get banned for haven't been written yet

Omegus wrote: ↑Fri Jun 04, 2021 9:53 am

Alfa1986 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 04, 2021 8:11 am2. NB automates the gameplay, and makes the player something like a one-button bot. The second is a bizarre argument that is shattered by any straightforward honest look at how NB was actually used. Perhaps NB could be configured for something like that, but I think most of those who used it used it only for simple optimization of reducing the number of buttons, without setting any specific conditions.

How exactly do you reduce the number of buttons without setting any conditions on when the buttons should and should not be pressed? Activting an ability when off cooldown is a conditional check (the condition being the cooldown), activating an ability if its buff/debuff has dropped off is a conditional check, activating an ability if "enabled" (e.g. Rage level high enough or in the right stance) is a conditional check, and so on.

to my shame i m not good at programming and all such stuff like that, the only condition that I used in NB is a "virtual cooldown". in fact, that was enough for me. Well, an example of a sequence without any conditions at all: ability with a 10sec cooldown; ability with a 5 sec cooldown; ability without cooldown.

Paura wrote: ↑Fri Jun 04, 2021 11:39 am

Alfa1986 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 04, 2021 8:11 am 5. NB brokes GCD, and with the help of its ability can be cast faster than designed. I donno.
6. NB was blocked in live, why should it be allowed here. In my mind, it was never banned until the last patch.

5 False
6 False

I understand that, but I had to point this out since these two punkts are often sounded both in the game textchat and in discord, mb special for disinformation.

And what about squig pet , do not let you stealth cuz it s always hitting you, never loose your target even you vanish, what a good automation , should we ban them "the pet" ? is that fair enough ? yes i m agree some class dont need NB at all to be unfair .