Return of Reckoning

wargrimnir wrote:

Vayra wrote:

Abilities unaffected by this cooldown reduction effect are as follows:
- Rending Blade
- Da Waaagh! Is Coming
- Shades of Death
- Infernal Wave is affected but will not be reduced to less than 5s if using the tactic Neverending Agony

Clarification please, this only applies to the BO version, yes? Not the Choppa one.

As I recall it applies to both, since the listed abilities were modified to have a minimum CD.

Thanks, not a fan of the removal of 0s CD IW, but I guess I'll manage. Not that often I had a Choppa to let me spam it on here anyway.

Torquemadra wrote:

Jaycub wrote: IB probably needs a better punt, and something unique to 2h/snb that groups actually want (KD isn't going to cut it alone).

IB punt is actually the best all round punt in the game, unless a BG has 90+ hate then Away with Ye will punt the target further and even at 100 hate the difference in distance is not huge AND they get this from 25 grudge up AND its on a 10s cooldown base without need for a tactic.

I actually had mirrored it to Blackguards some time back but pulled it because it was a net nerf for the vast majority of time, feel free to test.

The grudge :^) I have against IB punt is it's just barely too short to be at least in the opinion of me and those I've been playing with a good enough guard breaker punt. I haven't done any real hard testing, but I do know that when you are trying to burst someone down when you punt their guard away even 1 second of extra time outside of that 30ft range is crucial.

At least the last time I did 6 mans on order with an IB he would never use it always in favor of using knight punt, it was seen as a waste of 30 sec immunity timer.

If you look at IB punt without taking into account punts being the only counter to guard I think it is all around the best core punt in the game for sure.

Torquemadra wrote:

Tesq wrote:@vayra it applies to both so your chosen 2h for rvr is dead no more rending blade spam use it for small scale basically to keep ppl 10% dmg reductioned while slayes do 200% more dmg ( this is not bart it is plenty possible with tactics stack) .

Are you being deliberately stupid? 2h chosen is dead because rending blade has a 5s cooldown? Are you suggesting that choppas 120s cooldown was in full use and having a 16% uptime was the making of 2 hander chosens? Because if you are claiming this otherworldly collaboration was the nexus point I would imagine you would have far greater things to concern yourself with.

I would suggest you think a little more carefully in your whine posts.

With all due respect even if i was warned what chosen 2h suppose to do compared to a s+b? if i s+b i can hold the line , if i go 2h a choopa fasta gave me a way to trade hold the line for dmg. And for a very short ammount of time also.
Since CS in 2h basically make it up for destinate to victory, rending blade make it up for hold the line: dmg for defense... that was fine, now you are basically stuck without any replacement for it. St stuff not gona lead you anywhere in rvr.

Again for my consideration ppl better play chosen 2h in sc and stick to s+b for rvr

Jaycub wrote:
Also remember that unlike live the skill level of people on this private server is vastly greater on average. People always laugh at me for saying this but seriously go look at old vods if you can find them even of 6 mans people where just terrible compared to now even the good 6 mans. Same phenomenon on WoW private servers.

well true. there are 2 really common types of players here.
1) totally clueless cause never played live and take there straw to play the game
2) walking AoR / RoR wikis which played countless of hours and love the game

(not talking the organisational state though)

Jaycub wrote:If a class only had a place in WB because of a 3 min CD group buff then I'd say there's bigger problems overall.

your statement is obviously right.

well warband play is about timing windows and pressure, fights are short on average. (pretty sure you know that)
sorc has no M2 which is really worth spending. (at least the sorcs I talk too state that if you ask them)
so for a majority, chop fasta + IW / SS spam was there "M2".

sorcs spot got weakened by this on paper... and only in the combination with a choppa.
I'm not much of a sorc player though. and we didn't make too much use of it too cause we have on average 1.5 active choppas in our WBs.
On average, for the big mass of destro, there should be chop faster more avaible, which is also a big buff to there survivability.
still,... vs coordinated order M2 drops. I think that doesn't matter cause it's most of the time close to instagib if they pull it off right. It's just math at some point. and recovery is pretty hard to pull of if your healers are not timing FM right.

our sorc players do decent kdr wise. even if they are grp'd sorc sorc, sorc SH etc.
still it's hard to balance the game for the devs.
the forums are full off ppl which defend there fav class. so hard to apply changes without QQ or get "fair" feedback.

In a real worrysome spot left is ex-chop-fasta-dispenser for the moment.

why bring one of those? dmg is hard to apply cause mdps and not that big on AOE mode.
there utility is multilated for the moment. hope the rework hits soon.
the longer it takes, the more they become a liability for every group cause the direction of changes is unknown paired with the mentioned DPS issue and there classcanon mechanic (for wb gameplay)

for a pug wb all these changes don't matter, "cause they run with whatever levies they have" and overall I see more BOs in pugs than choppas, so overall a realmbuff, if ppl ofc skill it and support with it (guess same was true for choppa before)

overall, BO is in a pretty decent shape right now.
also the talent trees now require some decisionmaking and have breakthrough points on RR 60 /RR70 as an example.
can't complain from a BO PoV with the last 2 patches. got rid of cheesy tools and has now an interesting middle tree.

Torquemadra wrote:

Martok wrote:

Asherdoom wrote:i don't understand these changes... which elf kill you already ina stun of 3 seconds time i don't see need to make their attacks undefendable :O

I am wondering about that rational myself. Witch Elves already have a four second knock-down, a four second disarm, and a six second disable, meaning fourteen seconds of game time in which their opponent is not allowed to fight back. That wasn't enough?

Thats how they were on live, this was a bug fix not a balance pass, its not attacks being undefendable, its openers and a sever as they should always have been. Deal with it.

i never played live so i cannot compare. but with al cos and stuff instead you could remove the indefensible stuff and give em more survival no? just asking. no trolling or flaming

Jaycub wrote:

Torquemadra wrote:

Jaycub wrote: IB probably needs a better punt, and something unique to 2h/snb that groups actually want (KD isn't going to cut it alone).

IB punt is actually the best all round punt in the game, unless a BG has 90+ hate then Away with Ye will punt the target further and even at 100 hate the difference in distance is not huge AND they get this from 25 grudge up AND its on a 10s cooldown base without need for a tactic.

I actually had mirrored it to Blackguards some time back but pulled it because it was a net nerf for the vast majority of time, feel free to test.

The grudge :^) I have against IB punt is it's just barely too short to be at least in the opinion of me and those I've been playing with a good enough guard breaker punt. I haven't done any real hard testing, but I do know that when you are trying to burst someone down when you punt their guard away even 1 second of extra time outside of that 30ft range is crucial.

At least the last time I did 6 mans on order with an IB he would never use it always in favor of using knight punt, it was seen as a waste of 30 sec immunity timer.

If you look at IB punt without taking into account punts being the only counter to guard I think it is all around the best core punt in the game for sure.

Other thing to consider is the blanket buff that KB received. You can't use abilities mid-air, so all punts are a type of disable, long or short.

live to believe a choppa nerf . one of the few tools choppas had to get in a organized wb and it got gutted .

I understand its provisional But this change to chop fasta is kinda lethal for choppa viability as sorc aoe support partner.
i always though choppa inferiority to slayer as aoe dmg dealer was something to fixt since it was even surpassed by maras.

about bork changes , i understand devs had tried to provide different stuff to bork to try to move him outta the traditionals roles he had, dps tank brawler, and big swing snarer and m4 cycler .

the problem is all these changes seems moot since there is almost 0 sinergy with black orc tactics and the fact cannot hit me wich is probably the skill wich in my opinion needed a look havent got a look at it. over the paper looks great but fail to adress the role of bork tank since his main source of cc and pumpers are mostly gone , and with these changes his ability to deal dmg has been impaired .

well guess i will try to run more experiments with both clases but looks grim.

So what is a reason to nerf Infernal Wave? Like I might understand no cooldown reduction on BO version as it would be a bit excessive, although it is only 10 seconds, but on Choppa, with 60 sec cooldown? why? you have just made AoE sorc even weaker.

It also makes never ending agony and lengthening shadows not very useful tactics at all.

So spamming aoe skills on the move once each gcd is considered balanced in a wb player point of view?

With HTL working correctly (45% disrupt + 20/30% from renown and gear) I can see that way more balances than ruin and destruction or burning head every minute, also more balanced than shoot thru ya/Llleath's arrow with bugged tactics making it 1 sec on a move.

Tha combo worked once every 2 minutes, required very specific party and had sorc unguarded. That morale dump doesnt require anything apart from your own tactics.