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Re: [AM] M1 Isha's Ward [Close Date: 6th May]
Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 12:27 pm
by Tesq
Knowthyself wrote: ↑Sun Apr 29, 2018 12:22 pm
If it is not a big advantage then what's wrong with changing its duration to 20 secs.? It would still be a decent morale that you can pop in every minute. I think you are missing the fact that it is a M1. If you compare it to any other M1 in game you would see that it is basicly overperforming. What is fair about changing its cooldown to 20 seconds is that it will force the player to use it exactly when it is extremely needed just as all the other morale abilities are intended to. I find no logic in your argument about pre-usage being a waste. How ? You can pop another one exactly right after it fades? But it gives you a granted in advance defence tool for any unexpected attack which is a big advantage. Moreover, I don't agree with the idea that AM is the squishiest healer. It depends on who is the player and how many armor talis are used...
the problem is the balance with the base healer m1, heal vs absorb, yes the absorb is higer but it is personal and wont save ya vs morales. Heal m1 in the otherway can be used on everyone and will counter better morales on you.
the good part of this morale imo is that you can pre load it and have a shield when whatever pop onto you. The value is the same, have it alredy up mean save 1 gcd which which is exatly what some tactics does on runy (kd reduction tactic) and shammy (detaun or speedproc ), I dont think am should be punish for something other healers aswell have (GCD saver, life saver, escape tools)
Re: [AM] M1 Isha's Ward
Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 12:33 pm
by Bozzax
peterthepan3 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:34 pm
Open for discussion. Will be locked in TWO WEEKS from now (6th May).
I wasn't going to open this until discussions on reworking morale CDs came about (Avatar of Sigmar and KOBS morales, for example). Is the ability too potent given its M1 status?
Personally, if pressed to choose a timer, I would be a fan of making it last 20 seconds (a la Slayer/Choppa M2, which is an M2!).
Note: all morales will most likely be looked at eventually in this manner
Why?
That would only make sense with mirrors. Typically the best Ms are there to cover for lack of abilities or tactics. If you look at them in isolation you sort of skip to weigh in why they were added in the first place (what they loosely mirror)
Example BO snare <> SM pounce snare
@op I believe this shield was given 60s duration to loosely mirror the passive defensive stuff on shmy. It is about giving ams a bit more reaction time and less setback on those slow big heals.
By sloting it you pass on a insta big heal that bypass healdebuffs.
Re: [AM] M1 Isha's Ward [Close Date: 6th May]
Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 12:41 pm
by peterthepan3
That may be what you believe. That doesn't make it true. If a morale is there to cover for lack of abilities/tactics, shouldn't we ascertain what tactics/abilities these are? It's a pretty bold statement. Everyone knows Shaman has better defensive potential, but does that negate from the mere possibility that a morale with 100% uptime may be overperforming? (I am playing Devil's advocate here, by the way
Good point at the end, i.e. you do miss out on a big heal if you slot it.
Re: [AM] M1 Isha's Ward [Close Date: 6th May]
Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 12:46 pm
by Bozzax
in isolation yes in context no
We talk about reducing def on the squishiest order healer that gained it by passing up the bread and butter M1 burst counter
Re: [AM] M1 Isha's Ward [Close Date: 6th May]
Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 12:49 pm
by Knowthyself
peterthepan3 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 29, 2018 12:41 pm
Good point at the end, i.e. you do miss out on a big heal if you slot it.
Which can be taken as another proof for overperforming. I don't understand how that makes a good point anyway. I don't think there is a class that can slot two M1s at the same time if I am not missing something here.
Re: [AM] M1 Isha's Ward [Close Date: 6th May]
Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 12:54 pm
by Knowthyself
Bozzax wrote: ↑Sun Apr 29, 2018 12:46 pm
in isolation yes in context no
We talk about reducing def on the squishiest order healer that gained it by passing up det bread and butter M1 to counter burst
In contex you have tanks to put a guard on you and prevent emenies to reach you by roots, punts and staggers.. Once again I don't think AMs stacking armor talis are squishy at all..
Re: [AM] M1 Isha's Ward [Close Date: 6th May]
Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 12:54 pm
by peterthepan3
Knowthyself wrote: ↑Sun Apr 29, 2018 12:49 pm
peterthepan3 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 29, 2018 12:41 pm
Good point at the end, i.e. you do miss out on a big heal if you slot it.
Which can be taken as another proof for overperforming. I don't understand how that makes a good point anyway. I don't think there is a class that can slot two M1s at the same time if I am not missing something here.
It's a good point because it's indicative of how
potent the ability is: it is
that good that you can forego the big heal morale (which is a staple for every other healer). Ergo we know how good the ability is, but the question is - is it too good?
Re: [AM] M1 Isha's Ward [Close Date: 6th May]
Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 1:16 pm
by Knowthyself
It is a big advantage in large scale battles because being squishy is not a good excuse to have 7200 absorb shield in 1 minute and 5 seconds since you have your tanks to protect you. In addition, if you are going to excuse the tactics and other abilities of other classes then I think a more detailed conparison in terms of other tactics, heal output and benefit to the team is required.
Also , being able to pre-activate it gives even a bigger advantage to AM both as a healer and DPS in small scale battle. We are talking about 7200 absorb bubble in 65 seconds. Ignoring the small scale fights was a mistake commited in live and I think it is being committed here as well.
Re: [AM] M1 Isha's Ward [Close Date: 6th May]
Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 1:33 pm
by Ugle
I have never felt ishas ward is good enough to pass up on neither M1 burst heal or M2 focused mind. It is too situational. If your argument is that in the outlier situation you can even keep it up permanently often enough that it makes a difference AND most AMs use it instead of saving for M2 focused mind, then you could argue it overperforms. I think you know the answer to those questions yourself OP. And rotating it would make your team a great disservice since you would never have the "oh shlt" M2 +group/big heal option available.
Re: [AM] M1 Isha's Ward [Close Date: 6th May]
Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 1:40 pm
by anarchypark
ok i may not have enough exp to tell it's OP or not cuz i don't use pre-shield.
maybe it's good against WEs.
what if WE pop on you when shield was 50% value due to previous fluff dmgs.
is it still OP?
I admit that pre-shield is not a waste.
it's risky-reward style. pros and cons.
cons :
other morales on CD when it's needed.
well, that's pretty big.
marsh+morale+aoe detaunt combo.
pros :
extra gcd.
safeguard against WE.
I miss something over-performing ?