Return of Reckoning

Fey wrote: ↑Sun Feb 09, 2020 7:31 pm I don't have much experience with WoL, but you could always be knocked back correct? If so you could always use cleansing flare or point blank to counter. As a healing AM I would watch for WoL like a hawk in fort defense. I don't play much order though. 100 foot KB on three classes seems like a perfectly plausible counter.

wonshot wrote: ↑Sun Feb 09, 2020 6:07 pm
While this is dangerous territory I guess I'll try to adress this, as I assume it was directed at me?
Yes we had a Dev in our warband, after he applied to join as a full on guildmember, and be treated as a guildmember(and not a Dev-player!). That involves getting spammed on discord and waking up to 150+ new messages in our theorycrafting section, doing internal guild-tests in offzones where we play chars on both realms to test out how different mechanics interact with eachother. This new member had an idea about how his class would interact with the Zealot winds of insanity mechanic, and the change to this ability is probably because he realized how there was no actual counterplay to an ability prenerf did the following:

- Drained the Zealot's AP point periodically (ap pots are a thing)
- punted back all enemyplayers(24aoe cap) for the 6sec duration, without granting them punt/pull/root immunity
- undefendable ticks of damage (no longer relevant as AOE healdebuffing on crit is gone)
- allowed for the zealot to cast all normal abilities + morales while the Self-toggle of Winds of insanity is ongoing (creating a safezone while grouphealing or ressing)
- Immune to all sorts of setback, cc, interrupts while the toggle was on

Winds of Insanity needed a window where there is counterplay against it, because in a keep or funnel situation not having line of sight to super punt a zealot preemptively this one ability could stop a full M4 push. And it could be chained by other zealots as followup, potentially. (an other change could had been to just give Wind of Insanity a 6player aoe cap like Rift)

wonshot wrote: ↑Sun Feb 09, 2020 6:07 pm Winds of Insanity needed a window where there is counterplay against it,

Zxul wrote: ↑Sun Feb 09, 2020 8:05 pm Funny thing, here are two ways of countering it which I came up with within 10 seconds after reading your post, which you for some reason didn't seem to find with all that testing:

1. Have an engi place a mine from far away, just before the push.
2. Have the tanks rushing in including sms with Vaul's Tempering.

Funny isn't it.

Collateral wrote: ↑Sun Feb 09, 2020 9:51 pm

Zxul wrote: ↑Sun Feb 09, 2020 8:05 pm Funny thing, here are two ways of countering it which I came up with within 10 seconds after reading your post, which you for some reason didn't seem to find with all that testing:

1. Have an engi place a mine from far away, just before the push.
2. Have the tanks rushing in including sms with Vaul's Tempering.

Funny isn't it.

I'll play the devils advocate here. No sm worth its salt specs vauls tempering in proper wbs. And random mines just give free immunities to everyone before anything even happens.

Zxul wrote: ↑Sun Feb 09, 2020 8:05 pm Funny thing, here are two ways of countering it which I came up with within 10 seconds after reading your post, which you for some reason didn't seem to find with all that testing:

1. Have an engi place a mine from far away, just before the push.
2. Have the tanks rushing in including sms with Vaul's Tempering.

Funny isn't it.

retekelek wrote: ↑Sun Feb 09, 2020 7:13 pm And what about Solar Flare on Kotbs for fort and keep plays? i was in a fort attack whit my tank, every time before we got m4 to ready to push 3-4 kotbs come out, droped thier morale drain on both sides frontline and we wasnt able to use m4 on pushing attempts. it was a massacre for order.

Zxul wrote: ↑Sun Feb 09, 2020 8:05 pm
2. Have the tanks rushing in including sms with Vaul's Tempering.

Funny isn't it.

wonshot wrote: ↑Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:33 pm Vaul's Tempering is something we thourght about, but due to the 2GCD requirement on the ability, 30foot range on partymembers and this CC immunity only lasting half of the duration of a Winds channel you cant use this ability as a reactionary tool, and with 3sec duration its too "expensive" in terms of what you give up as a prediction-tool.
I dove abit into its usefulness a week ago over here: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=35124&p=389305#p389305 so its not like its not been thourght about. Believe me

wonshot wrote: ↑Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:33 pm But Winds of Insanity simply just didnt have any counterplay.

zgolec wrote: ↑Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:49 pm Yea funny. We tested it many times. With VT 3 sec vs 6sec WoI duration u cant do ****. No matter how you play it.