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Re: Tone down shaman
Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2024 8:06 pm
by wargrimnir
Everdin wrote: Fri Jul 19, 2024 8:54 am
Hazmy wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2024 3:41 pm
Hey there,
Please try to keep it civil and respectful towards other players.
good luck with this wish
This is not an optional request. People that break the rules on the forum will end up suspended from the forum.
Re: Tone down shaman
Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2024 8:18 pm
by Bozzax
salazarn wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2024 1:21 pm
Common knowledge they are too strong.
The common reply is AM is too strong so its balanced. But it isn't. The speed buff/ 240 toughness hot/ automatic detaunt is superior and any AM would trade their extra dot or aoe or whatever for these.
IMO the problem probably lies not in the classes but the core scaling issues of the game. One namely is detaunt being too strong and skewed towards healer classes who can just keep it up ad infinitum. The second factor is that the base healing values seem high enough that you don't need to stack willpower to be an effective healer, meaning dotshams can just be tanky as hell with their heals while stacking int and then presumable toughness or anticrit.
You solve that core scaling issue the actual kit of shams and AMs is far more manageable and would need no tweaking. But atm they are overtuned and everyone knows it who roams.
Question 1 do you play either of these classes?
Question 2 do you play both realms?
Question 3 do you play healer (any) in bis gear?
Re: Tone down shaman
Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2024 9:30 pm
by salazarn
jafh123 wrote: Fri Jul 19, 2024 5:41 am
Tisaya wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2024 10:02 pm
If the game isn't balanced around 1 vs 1, then those hordes of shamans (isn't it ironic how so many players are attracted to such weak class) won't mind 1 vs 1 shaman potential being nerfed? Since 1 vs 1 doesn't matter anyway.
But why nerf something that doesn't need nerfing? Did a shaman kill you?
Truth is most people lose 1v1 fights because they don't know what to do. If you are used to fighting with a group or a WB (which is what this game is about), then your build will be optimized for that type of play, not 1v1. So when you fight someone who has an optimized 1v1 build, then you will surely lose.
There's plenty of stuff that will beat me 1v1 but I dont complain about them.
The issue with shaman is that they kill the roam scene. Its a frequent bugbear with order roamers.
Re: Tone down shaman
Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2024 2:27 pm
by Alubert
On paper it looks impressive but
1) SH also has RUN AWAY and nobody uses it because it would reduce its dmg potential
2) The vast majority of good Shamans don't use RUN AWAY tactics because it reduces their healing potential
3) Whatat Behind You?! tactics are very good but AM has a very strong equivalent of Run Between Worlds
4) Tougness Hot is not as strong as you think. Some shamans don't use it at all including me. I would gladly trade it for the best ST heal in the game which has AM Funnel Essence
As I wrote earlier if someone with no experience looks at a shaman's arsenal they may draw similar conclusions to yours. But in practice it looks completely different.
Re: Tone down shaman
Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2024 4:22 pm
by Panzer80
As soon as I log on my healers, I instantly feel overturned. You don't even need to be heal spec. Just detaunt, absorb, hot, cc, repeat. Crap gear and unpotted and I can /slash lol at sov dps trying to kill me. If the idea is to keep healers above other classes in strength, then I hope (as I've suggested before) that at least WE/WH are given a unique heal depuff ability to counter their overall strength. This would improve the rock/paper/scissors element of the classes and go a long way for making WE/WH something other than a novelty act.
Re: Tone down shaman
Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2024 11:49 pm
by BoriqOne
lemao wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2024 2:15 pmskill issue
shaman is easy mode . puddle run puddle run, DOT, KD, run DOT, enemy dead. or war reported, lol. sorry can't do that any longer yeah we dead.
Re: Tone down shaman
Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2024 2:16 pm
by salazarn
Panzer80 wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2024 4:22 pm
As soon as I log on my healers, I instantly feel overturned. You don't even need to be heal spec. Just detaunt, absorb, hot, cc, repeat. Crap gear and unpotted and I can /slash lol at sov dps trying to kill me. If the idea is to keep healers above other classes in strength, then I hope (as I've suggested before) that at least WE/WH are given a unique heal depuff ability to counter their overall strength. This would improve the rock/paper/scissors element of the classes and go a long way for making WE/WH something other than a novelty act.
Basically this. You get one perma 50% dmg reduction which basically means that in roam situations with 2-3 dudes on each side healers don't die. They're just unkillable. If you changed detaunt to like say, 65% dmg reduction for all classes and you cant use abilities, i think shamans would be pretty reasonable as would other healers.