Return of Reckoning

@talissera I never said i want a incoming Healdebuff in this post. Please read more accurate. Yes the pet can be killed very fast and that makes the WL vulnerable. Other classes dont have this disadvantage.

Azarael wrote:

Ninepaces wrote:WL have a unique exceptionally good gap closer so its only fair they have to give something up for balance.

The best part of WAR is the balance between the two factions at party level by mixing and matching the unique tools of different classes.

You have ten seconds to name all the awesome stuff WL has that would make up for a Pounce nerf.

not suggesting pounce nerf, just saying they shouldnt have pounce and inc hdb.

Korhill wrote:@talissera I never said i want a incoming Healdebuff in this post. Please read more accurate. Yes the pet can be killed very fast and that makes the WL vulnerable. Other classes dont have this disadvantage.

Sorry, about "you" I mean "WL pilots", not exactly you. Still without a pet WL still can finish killing target and have insane mobility in battle because just jump from target to target. Atm I still think that even single target mdps WH cannot overcome versatility and damage of WL.

Adding an incoming heal debuff on a WL is insane. Destro healers would be dead in 3gcd's or less. Also, this is why SW's are needed. They can SS (at 6 points please and not 9) while a WL or other mdps can Hdb.
As is the WL is a fav for 6 man grps along with slayer. WH's and SW's are not. By taking abilities from WH's and SW's to add to WL you reinforce this and make two classes even more useless.

drmordread wrote:Adding an incoming heal debuff on a WL is insane. Destro healers would be dead in 3gcd's or less. Also, this is why SW's are needed. They can SS (at 6 points please and not 9) while a WL or other mdps can Hdb.
As is the WL is a fav for 6 man grps along with slayer. WH's and SW's are not. By taking abilities from WH's and SW's to add to WL you reinforce this and make two classes even more useless.

now imagine taking a WL and a SW....1200 armor debuff, 15% extra crit, ranged knock down, spammable gap closer.... then try playing a zealot or any other light armor wearing class and tell me what kind of counter play is available to you? detaunt one die during the knock down and get ready to realese, over and over and over....

The 15% crit tactic on the SW is rarely used because it basically takes a tactic slot which gimps all of the other SW abilities by A LOT. So not worried about the SW, they need a reason to be included. I have no problems with SW heal debuff either. It is easily cleansed, especially when a DoK is specced into the grp cleanse tactic. Just spam it every time it comes off cooldown and debuffs are gone.

The WL is already a bonus to grp play, and does not need an inc heal debuff to make them viable.

oh got it....so just make playing dok mandatory and **** every other heal class got ya

And yet on the pay servers no one seemed to have a problem.

Also you are forgetting the armor bonuses. I dont know where you are coming up with the 1200 armor debuff. When scaled with Stalker/RvR set lucky if the armor debuff is 600.
AND, zealots have the triple punt to stave off WL's and Shammies have the double detaunt as well as other abilities and both also have cleanse.

Again, you are making a big deal over nothing!

drmordread wrote:And yet on the pay servers no one seemed to have a problem.

Do not even try to compare this and live servers!
At live servers you was able to get to LOTD at 32 and buy much better stuff, than we have here.

According to the logic used in this thread, the marauders healdebuff should be erased because there are squigherders.

Imo a melee DD without an incoming healdebuff is the same as a tank without guard. One is the most important debuff (against competitive "no-pug-enemies"), the other one is the most important buff.
With an incoming healdebuff on the WL, you are free to compose any group setup you want. Without it, you are always bound to a non-WL-class as second DD (again: against non-pug-enemies).
You can go without a thoughness debuff, a wounds debuff (on order you are used to it...) and even without an armor debuff, but the incoming healdebuff is absolutely vital.

Just imagine the swordmaster would be the only tank that has no guard.
The "WLs can't have inc HD cause pounz" argument is the same, as when people would say SMs can't have guard cause "ether dance" or "whispering wind" are so strong.

Btw: imo a short cooldown on pounce is justified, mainly to stop that ridiculous pounce spam on the same player over and over...