Return of Reckoning

Some SC only suck because ppl left in the first place, instead of trying to fight.
That's the reason I usually join with a guild-party. Not a perfect premade to utilize synergies, but with some ppl that actually will try to put up a fight, while having fun together.

It's not like capture the flag is some superhard mode to play and understand. Nothing people shouldn't be capable of. It's just getting used to the fact that there are different scenarios and ways to win. If you don't like them - don't queue for them. Only one I really dislike is Logrin's Forge, since basically the most straightforward way to win (score more points than the enemy) is to sit at one point and just wait.

Danielle wrote:It's not like capture the flag is some superhard mode to play and understand. Nothing people shouldn't be capable of. It's just getting used to the fact that there are different scenarios and ways to win. If you don't like them - don't queue for them. Only one I really dislike is Logrin's Forge, since basically the most straightforward way to win (score more points than the enemy) is to sit at one point and just wait.

Add an interactable at each objective. It works while objectives have contrasting ownership. After 5 seconds of uninterrupted use, a countdown is issued at the opposite objective. At the end of the countdown, anyone of the enemy realm at the other objective takes damage, which is spread to anyone within 100 feet of them - similarly to how artillery works. That, or use a single explosion with damage based on number of enemies in proximity of objective (200ft or so.) In this way, an entire faction deciding to camp one objective gets destroyed, but smaller groups aren't affected much.

Penril wrote:Did a Black Fire Basin last night on Order.
We pushed Destro to their spawn so i started running the flag.
Some AM grabbed it and instead of running it, he went and tried spawn camping Destro.
The rest of Order said "hey Destro, kill this AM please! we won't interfere".
Destro proceeded to destroy the AM. He didn't try grabbing the flag again.
I continued to run the flag (with a groupmate) and the SC ended in 5 minutes.

I like the new system in objective-based SCs. It really feels like there is less spawn-camping (at least, in my presonal experience from last night and the night before that).

I have seen what you have describe, and I have seen the opposite where a order tanks grabs the flag, hides near order spawn and turtles the match for 10min's to try to deny destro emblems.

I have also seen 15 min farms where both teams failed to do objectives at all.

I like the new system mind you, but I think there needs to be less of these scenarios in the line up. Queues are not as such that you can really pick and choose which maps to play, It might be better if there were only 1-2 maps using the new system up, and a few more of the tried and true maps like reikland factory, mourkian temple, or battle for praag in the line up for those that want to focus less on points.

peterthepan3 wrote:
i would assume anyone who experiences this would: a) try to find a group immediately; b) form/join a guild to alleviate this problem. if you knowingly join scenarios when there are premades out on your own, you're being masochistic willingly.

This solution is way easier said than done. I can't speak to the culture on RoR, but in most games I have played getting into actually competitive PvP groups requires a lot of work. You have to be good, geared and find a group with an open spot. If you happen to be in an elite level guild it's a bit easier, but most players are not in such guilds. Grabbing five other people from your casual guild is not going to make you competitive with serious premades even if you do manage to get everyone on comms.

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Back to the original topic of the thread. I think the changes are a mixed bag, but I generally like the idea. Making certain scenarios more objective focused makes a lot of sense. I used to HATE Logrin's Forge because I always felt torn between doing what is right for the scenario and what will get me more xp/rp. Nobody wants to be the guy left guarding the objective against attacks that might not even happen while everyone else is getting mad deeps/heals/xp/rp fighting somewhere else. This new system makes it rewarding to actually do the things that are productive for your team rather than just fighting all the time. I think the balance that has been struck on this so far is pretty good. SCs like Battle for Praag or Gromril Crossing don't need these changes because the objectives are set in such a way to encourage the action to be concentrated where the objectives are.

As far as the bit about hiding the names of scenario participants -- I'm very sympathetic to your perspective Azarael, but I do disagree in some ways. I hate it when people queue and leave. That said, getting crapped on by a team that you can't possibly hope to beat is also incredibly unfun. I'm not in T4 yet so I don't really know how big of a problem premades are, but in such a small server it would be very easy for a few premades to show up often enough to get people to stop queuing. I think most successful competitive games at least attempt to sort people into competitive tiers, helping to increase the percentage of "real games" people play. Many games feature ladders or ranking systems or different leagues based on skill. Others use incentives to silo players. I think Magic Online is really quite clever in how they do this. They offer events that have very flat prize support and events that have very top-heavy prize support. It's essentially impossible to turn a profit in the flat events whereas top heavy events have more variance but offer the possibility of coming out ahead. As a result more skilled players tend to play in top heavy events.

I think there are a number of solutions to how this problem is ultimately addressed in RoR. I'm not sure if it's even worth pitching them here as I don't really know what is technically possible.

One more thing -- I think that to some extent the very design of scenarios (and to a somewhat lesser extent ORvR) is problematic. Some percentage of PvP is non-competitive: one side has no realistic ability to accomplish anything. Non-competitive encounters are going to be an unavoidable part of essentially any game. The problem is that WAR's design doesn't give any incentive for even participating, and in fact provides a counter incentive: giving the other team more xp/rp/drops. In WAR, if your team doesn't have a realistic chance to win then it's actually better to not even play at all. I think we can all agree that this is a bad design. You never want to create in a game where the player is incentivized to not play. Furthermore, I have found that WAR has a bit higher % of non-competitive encounters than most games that I have played. I'm not really sure what it is exactly, but it's pretty easy to hit a tipping point where one side just can't even really expect to get any kills at all, let alone win. There are many factors that can create this situation: gear imbalance, skill gap, bad composition, numbers gap, poor coordination, etc. Sometimes all it takes is one of these factors to make an encounter non-competitive. ORvR at least attempts to solve this problem with AAO -- when the losing side does get kills at least they are juicy ones.

Anyway, this has gone on far longer than I originally intended! Hopefully at least some of it is productive...

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Grumpbot wrote:

peterthepan3 wrote:
i would assume anyone who experiences this would: a) try to find a group immediately; b) form/join a guild to alleviate this problem. if you knowingly join scenarios when there are premades out on your own, you're being masochistic willingly.

This solution is way easier said than done. I can't speak to the culture on RoR, but in most games I have played getting into actually competitive PvP groups requires a lot of work. You have to be good, geared and find a group with an open spot. If you happen to be in an elite level guild it's a bit easier, but most players are not in such guilds. Grabbing five other people from your casual guild is not going to make you competitive with serious premades even if you do manage to get everyone on comms.
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There are probably 4-6 serious premades queuing on comms daily (maybe 2/3 at a time) - which really isn't that much. Even if you are in your 30s, if you manage to get a good group composition and everyone on comms I promise you your win ratio will skyrocket. Of course, if you do face another premade who is better geared/organised then you may lose; but that should spur you on to gear up and come back to avenge yourselves!

it is very easy to get into a group and make it competitive in this game when compared to other games (such as wow).