Return of Reckoning

Scrilian wrote:

CaseyJones wrote:scen with random people
Right now it's not viable.

It never was and that's the whole point of it.

It has always been viable. I've had two characters for 6mans in rr80-something bracket but later I also had three other character that casually made it past rr70 without playing in a premade even once. It wasn't easy but it was fun and I feel like it was worth it.

Ekundu01 wrote:There is one solution to make a pug vs pug map work most of the time but not sure if they are able to do it at this time and that would be to make factions not matter and make it a red vs blue situation and have the system pull from a pool of players and have it fill spots with destro or order. If i am not mistaken this was done towards the end of the life of the game on live when populations were low to keep que pops high no matter what side you played for.

With out the above changes if a pug vs pug map was put in you would see much higher que times or possibly no pops at all.

Oh, yeah. Rift did that a while ago with their mercenary system. I don't think Mythic ever did it with WAR, though.

Cutting faction out of the picture is actually a really cool idea. If they can do it for dueling, maybe it could be done here.

gungnir08 wrote: I'm not saying that your premade wants to farm pugs,

Wrote it since I've noticed it being passed on as a truth in several posts. There simply is no PUG farm as most premeds you recoginze are capped.

gungnir08 wrote: PQs were revamped to allow for easy, medium, and hard difficulties for precisely this reason.

No really as rewards wasn't same for E/M/H. Again H that gave greater rewards required groups and good players

gungnir08 wrote: City instances involve so many people that the contribution of one premade can be minimal.

Disagree ONE good group would win the instance most of the time

gungnir08 wrote: Some people want to queue alone and play with whatever the system gives them. I'm definitely one of those people, and as it is now, this playstyle is simply not viable.

I've SC pugged 4+ toons from 1/0 > 35/40 more less solo. Ofc I've gotten stomped by groups as well but I'm actually much more annoyed by SC where heal is missing on one side.

gungnir08 wrote: Furthermore, if you want people to group into premades just to have a shot at winning,

Current match system fields premeds on your side as well

gungnir08 wrote: would you say they should change the classes that they play?

Possibly but it really depends on what they have as common goal for the group

gungnir08 wrote: Still only talking about scenarios.

I'm pointing out that there are much more that you'll be locked out of in this game if you don't get social

gungnir08 wrote: As for me, other than doing Lost Vale until my bucket hat drops, scenarios are the only reason I play Warhammer.

For me scenarios are the main reason I play Warhammer (guessing 6-70% has been solo)

gungnir08 wrote:

Ekundu01 wrote:There is one solution to make a pug vs pug map work most of the time but not sure if they are able to do it at this time and that would be to make factions not matter and make it a red vs blue situation and have the system pull from a pool of players and have it fill spots with destro or order. If i am not mistaken this was done towards the end of the life of the game on live when populations were low to keep que pops high no matter what side you played for.

With out the above changes if a pug vs pug map was put in you would see much higher que times or possibly no pops at all.

Oh, yeah. Rift did that a while ago with their mercenary system. I don't think Mythic ever did it with WAR, though.

Cutting faction out of the picture is actually a really cool idea. If they can do it for dueling, maybe it could be done here.

Can you imagine the balance issues that would bring? Just picture a Hoeth SM that ends up in a group with a Sorc or 2...

gungnir08 wrote: PQs were revamped to allow for easy, medium, and hard difficulties for precisely this reason. Easy PQs were meant to be a thing for solo players to do if they didn't want to deal with the hassle of getting a group together.

yes and its rewards are miserable. So you would agree that solo scs only give 1 emblem for winning, none for losing?

Bozzax wrote:Wrote it since I've noticed it being passed on as a truth in several posts. There simply is no PUG farm as most premeds you recoginze are capped.

Fair enough, but I don't think anyone with a clue would contest the existence of even a few premades out there that only want to screw with pugs.

Bozzax wrote:No really as rewards wasn't same for E/M/H. Again H that gave greater rewards required groups and good players

Why bring rewards into this? We're talking about gameplay. If rewards are all that stand in the way of making this game more pug friendly, then by all means, cut them as much as is needed.

Bozzax wrote:Disagree ONE good group would win the instance most of the time

Agree to disagree, then. The number of players in a city instance severely diminishes the contribution of a premade, in my opinion. You don't see many single 6-mans out there carrying RvR, at any rate.

Bozzax wrote:I've SC pugged 4+ toons from 1/0 > 35/40 more less solo. Ofc I've gotten stomped by groups as well but I'm actually much more annoyed by SC where heal is missing on one side.

Odd that you'd be angry about a lack of healing. You argue that pugs should adapt to premades, so why not adapt to not having heals and bring them yourself?

If you expect others to change the way they play in order to enjoy the game, you should practice what you preach and be an example to others.

Bozzax wrote:Current match system fields premeds on your side as well

I never said it didn't. Just because both sides have an equal chance of getting screwed doesn't mean this system is fair.

Bozzax wrote:Possibly but it really depends on what they have as common goal for the group

Winning is the common goal. I thought I made that pretty clear.

If people have to make decisions that go against their definition of "fun" just to have a chance at winning, that's a problem, in my opinion.

Bozzax wrote:I'm pointing out that there are much more that you'll be locked out of in this game if you don't get social

And I'm assuming most rational people don't care about that. There's more to WAR than pixels and rewards; some of us play for fun.

Bozzax wrote:For me scenarios are the main reason I play Warhammer (guessing 6-70% has been solo)

Surprising that we don't see eye-to-eye on this, then.

gungnir08 wrote:

Ekundu01 wrote:There is one solution to make a pug vs pug map work most of the time but not sure if they are able to do it at this time and that would be to make factions not matter and make it a red vs blue situation and have the system pull from a pool of players and have it fill spots with destro or order. If i am not mistaken this was done towards the end of the life of the game on live when populations were low to keep que pops high no matter what side you played for.

With out the above changes if a pug vs pug map was put in you would see much higher que times or possibly no pops at all.

Oh, yeah. Rift did that a while ago with their mercenary system. I don't think Mythic ever did it with WAR, though.

Cutting faction out of the picture is actually a really cool idea. If they can do it for dueling, maybe it could be done here.

rift has completly mirrored classes, thats why it works there. it will never work in war

Penril wrote:

gungnir08 wrote:

Ekundu01 wrote:There is one solution to make a pug vs pug map work most of the time but not sure if they are able to do it at this time and that would be to make factions not matter and make it a red vs blue situation and have the system pull from a pool of players and have it fill spots with destro or order. If i am not mistaken this was done towards the end of the life of the game on live when populations were low to keep que pops high no matter what side you played for.

With out the above changes if a pug vs pug map was put in you would see much higher que times or possibly no pops at all.

Oh, yeah. Rift did that a while ago with their mercenary system. I don't think Mythic ever did it with WAR, though.

Cutting faction out of the picture is actually a really cool idea. If they can do it for dueling, maybe it could be done here.

Can you imagine the balance issues that would bring? Just picture a Hoeth SM that ends up in a group with a Sorc or 2...

You flat out would have to just look the other way when it came to balance for the solo que only map if the above was put in place. It would just be to maintain high solo que pops no matter what faction you played on, you win some you lose some but instead of having high wait times you would get into matches much quicker. IF anyone expects to win all the time even with solo que only maps they are delusional.

Tiggo wrote:

gungnir08 wrote: PQs were revamped to allow for easy, medium, and hard difficulties for precisely this reason. Easy PQs were meant to be a thing for solo players to do if they didn't want to deal with the hassle of getting a group together.

yes and its rewards are miserable. So you would agree that solo scs only give 1 emblem for winning, none for losing?

That wouldn't bother me in the slightest. I play this game for fun, not for rewards.

Besides, if a pug group is getting curbstomped by a premade, they'd be lucky to get even one emblem for a loss. Choosing to have more fun with a comparable reward as "punishment" is a no-brainer. There is little to no trade-off for your proposition. If anything, it's a net gain for the pugs.

Ekundu01 wrote:

Penril wrote:

gungnir08 wrote:Oh, yeah. Rift did that a while ago with their mercenary system. I don't think Mythic ever did it with WAR, though.

Cutting faction out of the picture is actually a really cool idea. If they can do it for dueling, maybe it could be done here.

Can you imagine the balance issues that would bring? Just picture a Hoeth SM that ends up in a group with a Sorc or 2...

You flat out would have to just look the other way when it came to balance for the solo que only map if the above was put in place. It would just be to maintain high solo que pops no matter what faction you played on, you win some you lose some but instead of having high wait times you would get into matches much quicker. IF anyone expects to win all the time even with solo que only maps they are delusional.

I'm not saying it would be ideal, but it would definitely be cool to see.

As for balance issues, what could happen in one scenario could easily change in the next because teams wouldn't be static. Since premades would be barred from entry (and inter-realm groups aren't a thing anyway), you wouldn't be looking at such extreme cases as Hoeth SM + Sorc in every scenario. I think that this idea would be fun to try.