Return of Reckoning

Question: Will all of the players complaining about pugs commit to starting and leading warbands or will they say f that Im staying in my 6 man that have played together since live. The pugs should just magically organise and get on my level bro.

Totaly agree with Telen, I play a Warhammer Online game to find brotherhood in Realm and interact positively with players from the same Realm, use the most as possible abilities to play with others Realm players.

All I have find to play in Guild or 6 mans is just kill and forget Objectives.

I like all style of play for a War game because this is more realistik but I don't like to focus on kill only and avoid the Obectives because this make us predictable and weak.

Many of premade and some guild play just look like "skinners" of battlefield or pillagers mercenaries from the middle age.

I m not against their style play as I say, because this is realistic in all wars to have some pillagers and killers, for the stress and rage, but their style play is not the reality of a War conflict game, and more a Warhammer conflict, who are all about the Realms.

You just preach for the guildpride here not for the inteligence of the War game.

Hargrim wrote:Well, my comment just stated the obvious. Howeve I think I will add stats gathering to bag code, so we can have no more of this "I played 100 zones and won 1 gold bag".

If ppl would "play" the zones, I wouldn't attend to this debacel thread.

I leave my screenshot as a reminder again.




and this guy is not one of a million. drawtimers get broadcasted frequently or get inbetween when the momentum shifts.

also if the lootsystem is more reliant on the opposition (AAO, lowlevel pug warbands etc.) than no wonder we can build "New IC" out of white bags, it's a pretty mess if you are reliant on your enemy to play the game if they refuse to and just xrealm or logout. (with exceptions ofc)

Fallenkezef wrote:Here we go.

Can't have those pug peons having gear, they are only fit to give the guild WB's free kills.

I'm sorry mas'er

srsly dude, have all the gear you want. take it. it's yours.
the problem is not about pugs having gear. the problem is pugs refuse to play the game and play the system instead like mentioned drawtimers, like mentioned log next char method etc.
if playing a system is more rewarding than playing the game, why should I play?
if playing a game with effort is as rewarding as playing it without effort, why should I invest time in putting in effort?

that's the core questions beiing asked here.
not: "do pugs deserve to have gear?".
everybody can agree on "yes, they do.", I bet.

it's about the fairness in organized vs nonorganized. and making incentives to play organized.
this lootloteryrandomrollsystem + 4m:30sec mercy timers can only be a good thing for players who put in 0 effort.
If a pug player had a good run in a pug wb, give that man a gold bag.
if he put in work and commited time on leading give him platin.

but asking in /2 how long till draw? or ppl. char hopping and not playing at all can also not be in your interest.

ragafury wrote:if playing a system is more rewarding than playing the game, why should I play?

Is it? Got some empirical data? Or a hunch?

Another thing I'll just add is that a lot of the casualness and lack of need for organisation and leaders with the drive actually organise casuals is the lack of realm pride. Which is the opposite of what the pres want to see as most dont consider themselves part of a realm but their own faction with a setup on both sides. Many issues are interlinked and this one is linked to realm and lack of a goal (city) to push towards. Right now were all either soloers or our own pre factions.

There is no realm so there are no or at least very limited, mostly to rp groups who have made their own link to realm pride by playing it, realm leaderships. No leadership. No organisation.

When we have city it may well focus things but without realm pride it really limits how far organisation will get. Realm lockout may well be infeasible but imo that is the crux of the issue. You need to be part of a realm not our own. solo or pre, faction.

Hargrim wrote:

ragafury wrote:if playing a system is more rewarding than playing the game, why should I play?

Is it? Got some empirical data? Or a hunch?

I'm talking the lootsystem.

yes, I can log in, get contri myself for the zone like Auri explained it here.

log next char. get contri.
log next char. get contri.
log next char. get contri.

play something else.
come back. check timers. may loot my bags.

wander to next zone.
log next char. get contri.
log next char. get contri.
log next char. get contri.

rinse and repeat.

have a full equipped char after a couple of weeks without even playing the game.

should be enough explaining.

ragafury wrote: if playing a system is more rewarding than playing the game, why should I play?

For you the game is about gear and rewards. Thats the problem. Its not. Its about the realm war. The game was meant to be about something bigger than yourself. Thats why Mythic had us play foot soldiers compared to the god like characters in most mmos. Yes were limited by the lack of realm goal yet. Still the fixation on gear we see in this thread is a symptom of whats is lacking from the game. Mythic also lost it and in the end introduced massively op gear and a grind to replace what the game had lost there too.

Mythic never did manage to work out how to fit player ego into a rvr system.

When your faction gets gear you should be happy. Thats your faction getting stronger. Here we have crying about its unfair. A perfect example of a complete decoupling of player from realm. We used to have people opening bags on live and its spamming chat what they got and a chorus of gratz. Now we have threads complaining about it.

imo this game doesnt work without proper realms.

didn't statues in capital cities sorta see to that? :p

ragafury wrote:

Hargrim wrote:

ragafury wrote:if playing a system is more rewarding than playing the game, why should I play?

Is it? Got some empirical data? Or a hunch?

I'm talking the lootsystem.

yes, I can log in, get contri myself for the zone like Auri explained it here.

log next char. get contri.
log next char. get contri.
log next char. get contri.

play something else.
come back. check timers. may loot my bags.

wander to next zone.
log next char. get contri.
log next char. get contri.
log next char. get contri.

rinse and repeat.

have a full equipped char after a couple of weeks without even playing the game.

should be enough explaining.

You did it? It work like that?

flintboth wrote:All I have find to play in Guild or 6 mans is just kill and forget Objectives.

I like all style of play for a War game because this is more realistik but I don't like to focus on kill only and avoid the Obectives because this make us predictable and weak.

Many of premade and some guild play just look like "skinners" of battlefield or pillagers mercenaries from the middle age.

I m not against their style play as I say, because this is realistic in all wars to have some pillagers and killers, for the stress and rage, but their style play is not the reality of a War conflict game, and more a Warhammer conflict, who are all about the Realms.

You just preach for the guildpride here not for the inteligence of the War game.

It's because playing the objectives gives you NOTHING. How can't people understand this? Why should our wb stand on a bo and defend it and get a couple rr ticks, while we can roam around hunting other wbs, where rr gain is exponentially higher? I personally don't care about bags, never did. The reward is in the organisation itself. The more organized you are, the more people you kill = more rp for all, more medals for all. Bags are just icing on the top (more often it's not really the case though, like aura pointed out).

I completely agree that the game is about the realms and massive battles across maps. That's why I also think guilds play a big role in realm identity (or at least they should). When you see the bitterstone, you instantly know who they are and what they fight for. Ofc, not all guilds are, or should be racial, but being in a guild only increases your sense of realm identity imo. You can have banners and guild colours so your enemies instantly recognize you (which was also a part of warfare throughout centuries, and more or less still is).

All that guild stuff is fine and dandy, but my question is why those guilds should even play the game? Fun is definitely one of the reasons, and it's why I (and obv many others) play the game. But over time this just gets lost. When you grinded out every zone, killed every opponent, the shallow rvr system becomes boring.

Hargrim asked me if guilds would be holding bos if they gave some buffs. Why would they have to? People already stand on bos (I honestly have no idea why) for whatever reason. The system is 'stand on bo, increase keep rank, go to siege'. And that's it. The ENTIRE system. I just don't see any depth in it, just my opinion. We roam the lake, spot a bo that's burning, go there, kill stuff, move on. The bo itself gives us nothing, zero. It's the players we killed. And when we move on there's always someone who will stay behind. And if those bos gave buffs now, I think people would be even more incentivised to stand on them. If they already stand on them while they give you almost nothing, surely they would guard them if they gave buffs? Or am I wrong?

And at that point the guilds come in. People will have to organize in some way if they want those buffs, for at least as long as they can have them. You will actually have to protect bos if you don't want the other realm to gain boosts. You are roaming the lake and one of your bos gets attacked? Better go there and help you allies. This could also help those stupidly designed zones like eataine, where the entire zones just turns into a giant ping pong table. You want to have a slight edge over the enemy? Move your ass and cap bos. Then defend them.

Maybe this is a completely bogus idea that would never work, but it's all I have to offer to this discussion (I didn't even think about it super hard). Pugging, 'muh 6man', 'muh guild wb' has no meaning if the system is plain boring. None of those arguements are worth anything. I think that if the system changes in some way where every one of these groups of players benefited from it and actually played towards objectives of the system itself (where they would get rewarded in that process), no one would be complaining (or at least complaining would be minimal).