Whelp, I'm seeing a big pile of buffs for my playstyle, and I imagine having pounce on a class with aoe knockbacks, aoe slow, and aoe CD debuffs is gonna be plenty useful in WBs.
Utility alone doesn't make a class good for a warband. And all that CC is pretty much irrelevant as it is covered many times over in a warband, the only truly worthwhile utility SH brings is bad gas, and as I already said the change gimped it for a proper warband spec.
It would have been fine if the change revolved around AoE, but for some reason the rework strayed away from a warband path and went more in the direction of upping survivability and 1v1 potential at the cost of anything related to warbands. Skirsmish and quick shootin trees were both nerfed to the ground for AoE (rightly so), but SH was a few nudges away from having the stabbing tree warband viable allowing it to dps without STY. It was pushed several nudges away from viability instead, to cater to solo players.
Yeah totally, I mean how could leaping in and putting a CD increaser on strategic back line players be of value to a warband? Or for that matter a clear the path ability that moves players but doesnt grant immunities.....oh yeah cant see any value in these in warband play. Perhaps some people need to be a little less linear.......
the squig herder "nerfs" that some cry about were fixes to abusing expert skirmisher and shoot through ya
The punt part of the 15pt ability has uses, but mostly just for trolling or non-combat situations. Bad gas is obviously good, but it was already present before the remake you know. The change to make it conal is better in most cases, but in a lot of situations can also be a horribly bad thing. Pounce is gonna help a bit, maybe, but you are still tied to guard range. And for all of this you still have mediocre damage at best. Big Bouncin hits pretty damn well, but the only supplemental damage being a 20 second(!) cooldown 6 second duration ability still leaves it as just that, mediocre. The added utility hardly makes up for mediocre damage which even relies strongly on chop fasta, loss of 2,4k damage morale, and the clunkiness introduced for the existing specs. But sure, for wrecking pugs it will be just fine, but even an AM/shammy in bomb spec can do that.
And quite frankly, you can call me linear as much as you want, but I didn't see you roll around the lakes for the last few years with 23 other guys dedicated to test EVERYTHING in the game to the full extent, on a full on organized warband scale on both factions. That is what other people have been doing, how is that for linear.
Anyways, if you just committed to making the spec GOOD for warbands instead of aiming half the changes at soloing, we would have gotten something amazing, maybe even gamechanging. Good start, overall the changes seem too split. You know you can't please everyone, so I have no idea why the remake seems to try to cater to every playstyle instead of sticking with the obvious route. I mean come on, 15% avoidance is not something you bring for a warband, and neither is a tactic that transfers 50% of damage taken 25% of the time to a pet you don't even summon. Both tactics could have been used to introduce some minigame or buff to make the dps aspect of the spec more fluid and engaging.
Re: [DEV] Finally... It Begins!
Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 6:36 pm
by Skullgrin
Personally, I've been anxiously awaiting this for quite some time (and non-charitably thinking "yeah, right it'll never happen" in the back of my skull). So congratulations to all involved, and thanks for all your hard work! A new Epoch begins...
Re: [DEV] Finally... It Begins!
Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 6:56 pm
by Reesh
Cool! Thank you guys for all the work, and that we came to that point!
Can't wait to test out my trash geared sh as melee soon.
Re: [DEV] Finally... It Begins!
Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 7:21 pm
by Akalukz
Thanks for the info guys! Love this new break through. I am on summer Hiatus but can't wait to jump back in this fall.
Re: [DEV] Finally... It Begins!
Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 7:27 pm
by chakzo
First of all thanks goes to all the dev team. Great run from clinically death WAR to this spot.
Redisign of some RVR zones like Kadrin Valley (area, keep position etc.) may be in your magical powers now? Just curious...
Yeah totally, I mean how could leaping in and putting a CD increaser on strategic back line players be of value to a warband? Or for that matter a clear the path ability that moves players but doesnt grant immunities.....oh yeah cant see any value in these in warband play. Perhaps some people need to be a little less linear.......
the squig herder "nerfs" that some cry about were fixes to abusing expert skirmisher and shoot through ya
The punt part of the 15pt ability has uses, but mostly just for trolling or non-combat situations. Bad gas is obviously good, but it was already present before the remake you know. The change to make it conal is better in most cases, but in a lot of situations can also be a horribly bad thing. Pounce is gonna help a bit, maybe, but you are still tied to guard range. And for all of this you still have mediocre damage at best. Big Bouncin hits pretty damn well, but the only supplemental damage being a 20 second(!) cooldown 6 second duration ability still leaves it as just that, mediocre. The added utility hardly makes up for mediocre damage which even relies strongly on chop fasta, loss of 2,4k damage morale, and the clunkiness introduced for the existing specs. But sure, for wrecking pugs it will be just fine, but even an AM/shammy in bomb spec can do that.
And quite frankly, you can call me linear as much as you want, but I didn't see you roll around the lakes for the last few years with 23 other guys dedicated to test EVERYTHING in the game to the full extent, on a full on organized warband scale on both factions. That is what other people have been doing, how is that for linear.
Anyways, if you just committed to making the spec GOOD for warbands instead of aiming half the changes at soloing, we would have gotten something amazing, maybe even gamechanging. Good start, overall the changes seem too split. You know you can't please everyone, so I have no idea why the remake seems to try to cater to every playstyle instead of sticking with the obvious route. I mean come on, 15% avoidance is not something you bring for a warband, and neither is a tactic that transfers 50% of damage taken 25% of the time to a pet you don't even summon. Both tactics could have been used to introduce some minigame or buff to make the dps aspect of the spec more fluid and engaging.
I must have missed your extensive testing of the changes, given you clearly know how it all functions in great detail, oh wait you dont and havent had the opportunity to test yet, stay out of the thread, your theorycrafting is meaningless, come back in several weeks.
Spoiler:
Re: [DEV] Finally... It Begins!
Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 7:43 pm
by Grunbag
Nice one !
Re: [DEV] Finally... It Begins!
Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 8:14 pm
by catholicism198
chakzo wrote: ↑Tue Jul 03, 2018 7:27 pm
First of all thanks goes to all the dev team. Great run from clinically death WAR to this spot.
Redisign of some RVR zones like Kadrin Valley (area, keep position etc.) may be in your magical powers now? Just curious...
They could...but it would require extensive restructuring of the zone since the entire zone is basically built around the keeps' locations. It's not a simple cut and paste.
