Return of Reckoning

Wam wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:28 pm

Draugris wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:59 am So what does the OP wants to say?

i mean everybody and his mother knows that order has a tendency toward ranged dps and destro towards melee, that´s old news. So why that may be, I play both sides and have ranged and melee classes. For me, Tanks on order side do not appeal to me visually, that´s why I don´t play one and I do not play classes that are not fun for me.

wonshot wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:04 am The thing I have come to understand over the years, is that no matter what incentive the devs put on something the player base will just abuse.
We saw it with the 20rp tics on Battleobjectives years ago, we saw it when Devs added royal and invader shards and with royals for defending forts to prevent throwing.

Congratulation to that insight, you call it abuse, but what people are doing is figuring out the most effective way to achieve things and this is not unique to RoR, this is the case in all mmorpgs, be they pve or be they pvp. If we talk about classes it´s called META, you might have heard of that. If we talk about mechanics, of course it´s the developers job to define what's intended and what's unintended and of course they define what the meta is and what´s not. They have the data on what representation each class has and if classes are under represented for a realm, well, I bet there is a reason for that.

also why something is over represented ...

Maximum range, decent aoe, and self healing, the healing keg is main reason why engi is over represented ... it means they dont need to rely on other parts of the holy trinty in fights where they can stay safe at range i.e keep fights/funnels

SW, alot of people hated on changes and i can understand why but it got more aoe pressure and LOTR people being fanboi's make this class very well represented

BW... being the strongest raw damage dealer makes this represented but not as much as it should be... ENGI BW AND SW are in wrong pecking order... should be BW > SW > Engi ... its strongest dmg dealer but needs support to work properly so order players tend to stick with engi for solo self reliance.

the more rdps the less tank/healer and mdps so becomes two fold

Idk Wam, your posts are always so complicated. This is not rocket science. I don´t know why people here always have this strange habit of listing single abilities as if that would prove anything. Before that you have to look at the big picture. Are Engis fun, definitely but Bugmen´s Best has nothing to do with it, a Bugmen´s Keg won´t save you from dying.

Gurf wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:21 pm The issue can be resolved by better Xrealming from the more experienced guilds. You have WAM in here telling people what to do when his guild plays on the over populated side consistently instead of the under populated one. Not that I think TUP are half as influential as some people think but at least the leaders like Gitbane and Lutz are doing xrealming the correct way and moving away from the side constantly zerging, others could follow their example (not FMJ though, they should stay Destro)

Too many people want the easy option, for example why don't many of the good Destro 6 mans move to Order to get constant scenario pops? Because they know it will be hard as they have to play other good 6 mans more often than random pugs, they want the easier option.

you have this pretty wrong mate

last monday we was destro, order had numbers they just sat in reikland keep vanguard on sor... destro had aao but order never came out to fight, order never moved zones lost tm and dw very uncontested... it was boring

then on wed's i check aao pre raid 40% to order, we go order reclutantly because you know i want to work on destro more, after doing ALOT on order last year to balance the void LBL and others left after PEON train ended... but you cherry pick to support your arguement thats fine

I do not want to play the AAO police as much as i use to in the past, and even if we did would still get comments that you only do X Y Z with no real info... because thats how it is, and people do not care if you go out of your way to make server better by doing this... its all short termism and chery picking, the main thing is to find the best action you can

My guild was destro based, we dominated for years, pop was imbalanced, we went order when guilds was in need and zerged like Bitterstones or cntk in the past... last year we tamed destro zerg alot, won alot of cities on order too... I already have full sov kotbs, sl, wl ... I prefer to play destro, but action is usually better on order so its hard to balance.

So using me as a example is a pretty poor choice

I was doing some 6 man roaming every evening on the weekend and guess which side had AAO and being zerged, yeah destro was... when order had premade guild wbs out trying to push NA cities.

Population shifts all the time... as a veteran you should know this by now... its no fun to be on the side without action

Draugris wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:44 pm

Wam wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:28 pm

Draugris wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:59 am So what does the OP wants to say?

i mean everybody and his mother knows that order has a tendency toward ranged dps and destro towards melee, that´s old news. So why that may be, I play both sides and have ranged and melee classes. For me, Tanks on order side do not appeal to me visually, that´s why I don´t play one and I do not play classes that are not fun for me.



Congratulation to that insight, you call it abuse, but what people are doing is figuring out the most effective way to achieve things and this is not unique to RoR, this is the case in all mmorpgs, be they pve or be they pvp. If we talk about classes it´s called META, you might have heard of that. If we talk about mechanics, of course it´s the developers job to define what's intended and what's unintended and of course they define what the meta is and what´s not. They have the data on what representation each class has and if classes are under represented for a realm, well, I bet there is a reason for that.

also why something is over represented ...

Maximum range, decent aoe, and self healing, the healing keg is main reason why engi is over represented ... it means they dont need to rely on other parts of the holy trinty in fights where they can stay safe at range i.e keep fights/funnels

SW, alot of people hated on changes and i can understand why but it got more aoe pressure and LOTR people being fanboi's make this class very well represented

BW... being the strongest raw damage dealer makes this represented but not as much as it should be... ENGI BW AND SW are in wrong pecking order... should be BW > SW > Engi ... its strongest dmg dealer but needs support to work properly so order players tend to stick with engi for solo self reliance.

the more rdps the less tank/healer and mdps so becomes two fold

Idk Wam, your posts are always so complicated. This is not rocket science. I don´t know why people here always have this strange habit of listing single abilities as if that would prove anything. Before that you have to look at the big picture. Are Engis fun, definitely but Bugmen´s Best has nothing to do with it, a Bugmen´s Keg won´t save you from dying.

in a real straight up fight i completely agree mate its too slow and not enough

but sitting on a keep wall sniping people, or sitting deep in a funnel, the keg might be just enough to save you... and that is how alot of people seem to play on order, people can play how they want its just a observation... on top of them out ranging enemies

Wam wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:46 pm

Spoiler:

Gurf wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:21 pm The issue can be resolved by better Xrealming from the more experienced guilds. You have WAM in here telling people what to do when his guild plays on the over populated side consistently instead of the under populated one. Not that I think TUP are half as influential as some people think but at least the leaders like Gitbane and Lutz are doing xrealming the correct way and moving away from the side constantly zerging, others could follow their example (not FMJ though, they should stay Destro)

Too many people want the easy option, for example why don't many of the good Destro 6 mans move to Order to get constant scenario pops? Because they know it will be hard as they have to play other good 6 mans more often than random pugs, they want the easier option.

you have this pretty wrong mate

last monday we was destro, order had numbers they just sat in reikland keep vanguard on sor... destro had aao but order never came out to fight, order never moved zones lost tm and dw very uncontested... it was boring

then on wed's i check aao pre raid 40% to order, we go order reclutantly because you know i want to work on destro more, after doing ALOT on order last year to balance the void LBL and others left after PEON train ended... but you cherry pick to support your arguement thats fine

I do not want to play the AAO police as much as i use to in the past, and even if we did would still get comments that you only do X Y Z with no real info... because thats how it is, and people do not care if you go out of your way to make server better by doing this... its all short termism and chery picking, the main thing is to find the best action you can

My guild was destro based, we dominated for years, pop was imbalanced, we went order when guilds was in need and zerged like Bitterstones or cntk in the past... last year we tamed destro zerg alot, won alot of cities on order too... I already have full sov kotbs, sl, wl ... I prefer to play destro, but action is usually better on order so its hard to balance.

So using me as a example is a pretty poor choice

I was doing some 6 man roaming every evening on the weekend and guess which side had AAO and being zerged, yeah destro was... when order had premade guild wbs out trying to push NA cities.

Population shifts all the time... as a veteran you should know this by now... its no fun to be on the side without action

He cant remember mostly of what you saying...simply he was not here:

Viewing profile - Gurf
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:38 pm

emiliorv wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:56 pm

Wam wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:46 pm

Spoiler:

Gurf wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:21 pm The issue can be resolved by better Xrealming from the more experienced guilds. You have WAM in here telling people what to do when his guild plays on the over populated side consistently instead of the under populated one. Not that I think TUP are half as influential as some people think but at least the leaders like Gitbane and Lutz are doing xrealming the correct way and moving away from the side constantly zerging, others could follow their example (not FMJ though, they should stay Destro)

Too many people want the easy option, for example why don't many of the good Destro 6 mans move to Order to get constant scenario pops? Because they know it will be hard as they have to play other good 6 mans more often than random pugs, they want the easier option.

you have this pretty wrong mate

last monday we was destro, order had numbers they just sat in reikland keep vanguard on sor... destro had aao but order never came out to fight, order never moved zones lost tm and dw very uncontested... it was boring

then on wed's i check aao pre raid 40% to order, we go order reclutantly because you know i want to work on destro more, after doing ALOT on order last year to balance the void LBL and others left after PEON train ended... but you cherry pick to support your arguement thats fine

I do not want to play the AAO police as much as i use to in the past, and even if we did would still get comments that you only do X Y Z with no real info... because thats how it is, and people do not care if you go out of your way to make server better by doing this... its all short termism and chery picking, the main thing is to find the best action you can

My guild was destro based, we dominated for years, pop was imbalanced, we went order when guilds was in need and zerged like Bitterstones or cntk in the past... last year we tamed destro zerg alot, won alot of cities on order too... I already have full sov kotbs, sl, wl ... I prefer to play destro, but action is usually better on order so its hard to balance.

So using me as a example is a pretty poor choice

I was doing some 6 man roaming every evening on the weekend and guess which side had AAO and being zerged, yeah destro was... when order had premade guild wbs out trying to push NA cities.

Population shifts all the time... as a veteran you should know this by now... its no fun to be on the side without action

He cant remember mostly of what you saying...simply he was not here:

Viewing profile - Gurf
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:38 pm

Not sure why you are always stalking me and posting the above, pretty weird if you ask me , especially as you have said you don't even play the game any more. I already explained I have been playing the game since start of 2020, not that it even matters

Gurf wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:21 pm The issue can be resolved by better Xrealming from the more experienced guilds. You have WAM in here telling people what to do when his guild plays on the over populated side consistently instead of the under populated one. Not that I think TUP are half as influential as some people think but at least the leaders like Gitbane and Lutz are doing xrealming the correct way and moving away from the side constantly zerging, others could follow their example (not FMJ though, they should stay Destro)

Too many people want the easy option, for example why don't many of the good Destro 6 mans move to Order to get constant scenario pops? Because they know it will be hard as they have to play other good 6 mans more often than random pugs, they want the easier option.

So, xrealm is bad, we need 4000000 year lockout for those bad xrealm traitors BUT then ppl complain 6man don't xrealm? for real? /s

6man are not hivemind, 6man are just 6 ppl that play togheter. you can't always xrealm as 6man not only because of that (stupid) xrealm lockout, but also because sometime, some of those 6 ppl want to stick on one realm for some time. It may be either to gear up a char or because they like the class or even both. It took me months to convince my group to come on Order and we lost 2 ppl in the process. it's not as easy as you make it appear

emiliorv wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:56 pm

Wam wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:46 pm

Spoiler:

Gurf wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:21 pm The issue can be resolved by better Xrealming from the more experienced guilds. You have WAM in here telling people what to do when his guild plays on the over populated side consistently instead of the under populated one. Not that I think TUP are half as influential as some people think but at least the leaders like Gitbane and Lutz are doing xrealming the correct way and moving away from the side constantly zerging, others could follow their example (not FMJ though, they should stay Destro)

Too many people want the easy option, for example why don't many of the good Destro 6 mans move to Order to get constant scenario pops? Because they know it will be hard as they have to play other good 6 mans more often than random pugs, they want the easier option.

you have this pretty wrong mate

last monday we was destro, order had numbers they just sat in reikland keep vanguard on sor... destro had aao but order never came out to fight, order never moved zones lost tm and dw very uncontested... it was boring

then on wed's i check aao pre raid 40% to order, we go order reclutantly because you know i want to work on destro more, after doing ALOT on order last year to balance the void LBL and others left after PEON train ended... but you cherry pick to support your arguement thats fine

I do not want to play the AAO police as much as i use to in the past, and even if we did would still get comments that you only do X Y Z with no real info... because thats how it is, and people do not care if you go out of your way to make server better by doing this... its all short termism and chery picking, the main thing is to find the best action you can

My guild was destro based, we dominated for years, pop was imbalanced, we went order when guilds was in need and zerged like Bitterstones or cntk in the past... last year we tamed destro zerg alot, won alot of cities on order too... I already have full sov kotbs, sl, wl ... I prefer to play destro, but action is usually better on order so its hard to balance.

So using me as a example is a pretty poor choice

I was doing some 6 man roaming every evening on the weekend and guess which side had AAO and being zerged, yeah destro was... when order had premade guild wbs out trying to push NA cities.

Population shifts all the time... as a veteran you should know this by now... its no fun to be on the side without action

He cant remember mostly of what you saying...simply he was not here:

Viewing profile - Gurf
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:38 pm

my bad, i thought he was a veteran... this explains alot ty for clear up last year was order when cities was released in feb... around summer was destro... september i think we was back mostly on order until xmas... we go destro a couple weeks this year and people start to lose their minds, and we already go back and forth just for more action ... i think one evening VII moved to order for more action just before we was going to which made it better.

You can only make a semi informed opinion on state of campaign, AAO at time of scouting, knowing if x y z will show up or not, or if puggies disband after one wipe impossible to predict... with lockouts being as they are make it very tedious to swap sides but a last resort if rvr is dire.

That being said not our job to aao police especially with lockouts making it more complicated, alot of community toxic and ungrateful so you have to do it for your own reasons and finding action and let haters hate with silly realm pride in 2021.

Ysaran wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 1:08 pm

Gurf wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:21 pm The issue can be resolved by better Xrealming from the more experienced guilds. You have WAM in here telling people what to do when his guild plays on the over populated side consistently instead of the under populated one. Not that I think TUP are half as influential as some people think but at least the leaders like Gitbane and Lutz are doing xrealming the correct way and moving away from the side constantly zerging, others could follow their example (not FMJ though, they should stay Destro)

Too many people want the easy option, for example why don't many of the good Destro 6 mans move to Order to get constant scenario pops? Because they know it will be hard as they have to play other good 6 mans more often than random pugs, they want the easier option.

So, xrealm is bad, we need 4000000 year lockout for those bad xrealm traitors BUT then ppl complain 6man don't xrealm? for real? /s

6man are not hivemind, 6man are just 6 ppl that play togheter. you can't always xrealm as 6man not only because of that (stupid) xrealm lockout, but also because sometime, some of those 6 ppl want to stick on one realm for some time. It may be either to gear up a char or because they like the class or even both. It took me months to convince my group to come on Order and we lost 2 ppl in the process. it's not as easy as you make it appear

now imagine the logistics of moving 24+ people from one side to another when already difficult for a 6 man, re gearing and all that... and losing some people in the process because they are roleplayers and too tied down to one side... the lockout throws a spanner in the works and some people want to increase the lockout simply have no idea, its already excessive as it is. People from the outside will always complain no matter what you do, so you do you.

Wam wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 1:15 pm

Ysaran wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 1:08 pm

Gurf wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:21 pm The issue can be resolved by better Xrealming from the more experienced guilds. You have WAM in here telling people what to do when his guild plays on the over populated side consistently instead of the under populated one. Not that I think TUP are half as influential as some people think but at least the leaders like Gitbane and Lutz are doing xrealming the correct way and moving away from the side constantly zerging, others could follow their example (not FMJ though, they should stay Destro)

Too many people want the easy option, for example why don't many of the good Destro 6 mans move to Order to get constant scenario pops? Because they know it will be hard as they have to play other good 6 mans more often than random pugs, they want the easier option.

So, xrealm is bad, we need 4000000 year lockout for those bad xrealm traitors BUT then ppl complain 6man don't xrealm? for real? /s

6man are not hivemind, 6man are just 6 ppl that play togheter. you can't always xrealm as 6man not only because of that (stupid) xrealm lockout, but also because sometime, some of those 6 ppl want to stick on one realm for some time. It may be either to gear up a char or because they like the class or even both. It took me months to convince my group to come on Order and we lost 2 ppl in the process. it's not as easy as you make it appear

now imagine the logistics of moving 24+ people from one side to another when already difficult for a 6 man, re gearing and all that... and losing some people in the process because they are roleplayers and too tied down to one side... the lockout throws a spanner in the works and some people want to increase the lockout simply have no idea, its already excessive as it is. People from the outside will always complain no matter what you do, so you do you.

totally agree, lockout shouldn't be there at all. It was actually nice when you could get +50% if you switched to the lower populous side

Ysaran wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 1:33 pm totally agree, lockout shouldn't be there at all. It was actually nice when you could get +50% if you switched to the lower populous side

You still can.