Return of Reckoning

I don't think this would be my number 1 pick as far as what needs to be changed but it definitely needs to be in the discussion as well:

Weapon Dps and AA damage

While melee/physical damage dealers do have a broader stat distribution (ex. weapon skill) as gear gets better and people start reaching their caps , the disparity between melee and magic/range will continue to grow in an already very melee oriented environment ( in particularly scenarios and smaller scale engagements).
The increased weapon DPS not only increases their ability damage but also their AA damage , which is why for alot of classes especially back on live AA is taking up a increasing amount of their total damage. In this light is also worth discussing how AA modifiers from items (ex. old tyrant) will affect the landscape if they are ever implemented.

And to tie it in with the individual class balance , there are obviously numerous examples of where some classes do have access to an AA speed steroid and their mirrors don't in which case they were given other tools to close the gap ( but are those tools effective?)

sanii wrote:I don't think this would be my number 1 pick as far as what needs to be changed but it definitely needs to be in the discussion as well:

Weapon Dps and AA damage

While melee/physical damage dealers do have a broader stat distribution (ex. weapon skill) as gear gets better and people start reaching their caps , the disparity between melee and magic/range will continue to grow in an already very melee oriented environment ( in particularly scenarios and smaller scale engagements).
The increased weapon DPS not only increases their ability damage but also their AA damage , which is why for alot of classes especially back on live AA is taking up a increasing amount of their total damage. In this light is also worth discussing how AA modifiers from items (ex. old tyrant) will affect the landscape if they are ever implemented.

And to tie it in with the individual class balance , there are obviously numerous examples of where some classes do have access to an AA speed steroid and their mirrors don't in which case they were given other tools to close the gap ( but are those tools effective?)

You could try for a little balance in your post before asking for balance in the game.

Yes, classes could stack more weapon skill and get more armor penetration as gear level increased. But at the same time, armor values increased with gear level. So was the extra armor penetration leading to more damage? If so, how much?

Increases in weapon dps and damage bonus provided higher damage for physical damage classes. But the same increase in damage bonus provides a larger increase in ability damage for caster classes to make up for the absence of weapon dps contribution.

So how did the increase in damage compare for casters versus physical damage classes? I actually made this comparison for SW versus dps AM. I worked out the damage that abilities did in lower rr level 40 gear attacking toons of the same rank for both classes. Than I did the same for higher gear levels. I took into account changes in stats, weapon dps, armor, and resistances. The result was that the two classes had almost equal increase in damage when expressed as a percentage change. For example, the better gear gave both classes about 20% extra damage against toons of equal rank.

The people who who designed the game weren't idiots. They knew what they were doing and they weren't setting out to make gear work better for some classes than others. Some of the later changes by less experienced personnel were more questionable, but as far as I can tell they were following the same algorithms for stat attribution as were used to calculate sub-80 gear specs. That's why the hidden levels were introduced for post rr80 toons. They were necessary to balance caster damage and healing against physical damage for the respective classes at rr80-100.

Annaise16 wrote:
You could try for a little balance in your post before asking for balance in the game.

You are being awfully agressive against a post that only intended to put another point in the discussion.

Annaise16 wrote:

So how did the increase in damage compare for casters versus physical damage classes? I actually made this comparison for SW versus dps AM. I worked out the damage that abilities did in lower rr level 40 gear attacking toons of the same rank for both classes. Than I did the same for higher gear levels. I took into account changes in stats, weapon dps, armor, and resistances. The result was that the two classes had almost equal increase in damage when expressed as a percentage change. For example, the better gear gave both classes about 20% extra damage against toons of equal rank.

So to prove me how im wrong in saying melee vs magic/ranged , you took a ranged class and a magic class as a comparison *clap* *clap* and conveniently you ignored the part about AA and AA modifiers that my post included and focused on just ability damage.

If you are looking for examples don't look at the SW because while it may use weapon dps it only uses it from one weapon either the sword for melee attacks or the bow for ranged attack. Unlike melee that can either get contri from 2hander or 2 one-handers. And my entired point wasn't even about ability damage which i KNOW it has better scaling for casters , it is the fact that with AA included higher weapon levels will give you a disproportionate damage increase to Melee Abilities and AAs TOGETHER , as it is easier to reach the caps while having weapon skill as a 2ndary attribute ( and i'm not even using wepon skill as a boon here for penetration , i am just implying how you can get to cap with having alot of "wasted" stat allocated into WS)

And as far as the developers of the game weren't idiots they WERE considering at the end of the game changes to the contribution of weapondps to casters, which never made it into the game cause the initial balancing was hard.

sanii wrote: If you are looking for examples don't look at the SW because while it may use weapon dps it only uses it from one weapon either the sword for melee attacks or the bow for ranged attack. Unlike melee that can either get contri from 2hander or 2 one-handers. .

Some of SW/SH/EN abillties actually get weapon dps contribution from both ranged weapon and offhand melee weapons.

roadkillrobin wrote: Some of SW/SH/EN abillties actually get weapon dps contribution from both ranged weapon and offhand melee weapons.

But it still doesnt change the fact which my entire post was about was that i am considering both AA and abilities which for melee are significantly higher!

Also i would really like to know which abilities those are , for reference sake!

The game has been """balanced""" since launch with casters not having any real auto attacks (non phy ranged auto attacks). You would probably also need to create some kind of animation and projectile for them as well?

It just doesn't seem necessary too me, as well as potentially making BW/Sorc a lot stronger. I actually like the idea, but it just seems like fluff that won't fix the core problems each classes are facing in whatever arena they are underperforming in. Or at least it's certainly not the only way to deal with say magus not performing well in small scale fighting.

Jaycub wrote:The game has been """balanced""" since launch with casters not having any real auto attacks (non phy ranged auto attacks). You would probably also need to create some kind of animation and projectile for them as well?

It just doesn't seem necessary too me, as well as potentially making BW/Sorc a lot stronger. I actually like the idea, but it just seems like fluff that won't fix the core problems each classes are facing in whatever arena they are underperforming in. Or at least it's certainly not the only way to deal with say magus not performing well in small scale fighting.

i remmember back in the days when casters had Wands to equip in the range slot for range aa's

Jaycub wrote:The game has been """balanced""" since launch with casters not having any real auto attacks (non phy ranged auto attacks). You would probably also need to create some kind of animation and projectile for them as well?

It just doesn't seem necessary too me, as well as potentially making BW/Sorc a lot stronger. I actually like the idea, but it just seems like fluff that won't fix the core problems each classes are facing in whatever arena they are underperforming in. Or at least it's certainly not the only way to deal with say magus not performing well in small scale fighting.

I am not saying that you should give casters any scaling over their staffs dps, i am simply trying to point out how weapon dps going higher is only going to increase the disparity between melee and ranged , nothing else. How you want to approach that is beyond me but it WILL become an increasing issue i can promise you that.

I guess scaling will have to be addressed by the devs, the server will cap out with RR 7x weapons and sov gear instead of warp and RR100 weapons at least.

SOFT. CAPS.