saupreusse wrote: Thu May 14, 2020 8:37 am
And to the guy who said you can simply bring a bg because he can do everything mara can do: thats just not true. Maras wounds and armor debuff is a lot stronger than bgs.
That would be nice if it were true and the Mara wounds/armor debuffs weren't nerfed in the past and had their tooltips adjust to reflect the real values that the debuff. You can't just look at the tooltips. The Mara wounds debuff for instance, is a 100 wounds debuff, not a 160. The Mara debuffs are actually '"slighly" stronger than a BGs, not "a lot". It's actually fairly disappointing, as one of the selling points of the Savagery Mara has always been (to your point) "it's great debuffs", but that's just not true on this server. Realistically, you have a standard armor debuff (exactly the same as WLs, slightly stronger than BGs), a standard single target wounds debuff (it's just 100 not 160), a standard low damage toughness debuff (basically almost never worth the GCD except in some niche cases, not affected by piercing bite, is defendable, so it's pretty bad versus tanks, and tough debuffs are generally not worth the GCD on low tough targets, so it's primary use is to occasionally use in a debuff cycle on defensive WPs, and that's about it), a 25% heal debuff that requires a tactic to be useful, and the ap regen debuff. It's honestly nothing spectacular in comparison to what it once was (1600 armor debuff, 160 wounds debuff, 75% heal debuff) , and it's barely a better package than other classes who don't have "dedicated debuff specs" can do.
(I will give you that the Mara is the tankiest of DPS classes, that's certainly true with the monstro proc, but it does also mean you are the most restricted MDPS class while you are tanky, and yes, you can stance dance, but procs drop on stance switches so there is no way to be tanky and be able to debuff and/or deal significant ST damage, outside of slapping wounds/armor/heal debuffs on, swapping to monstro and flail spamming for 5 seconds, and then repeating, but again you are only "tanky" for 50% of the time, and you still do ass single target damage).
That being said, I wasn't the person who brought up the BG argument, but I was the person responding to that logic. I'm not trying to make some kind of grand "bg is better than mara" argument, as I don't believe that, but the argument you are making doesn't hold much water in the current balance cycle, since its just not true. The point of responding to the other post who brought up that "The Mara wounds debuff isn't good because the BG can also do it", but also said "the changes I proposed are bad because you need to give up something to get the tactic slot", the response I was making was to say that if one is to use the logic that the wounds debuff is redundant with a bg (in a 6v6 environment), but then says "you need the armor debuff" (which following the same logic, is redundant with the BG), is illogical. So I was attempting to point out the logical conclusion of that argument, not necessarily to say "the armor and wounds debuffs are bad/useless because a BG can do them".
