Return of Reckoning

topkek bretin going full SilverWF with his emojis

The biggest problem here is nerfing the wl because his t3 is strong.
He already got his armor debuff, pounce and the crit dmg and autoattack haste tactics. (More or less all core tactics.)

Marauder is missing more or less 3 of his core tactics in t3. So you obviously shouldn't compare them on t3 level.

But nerfing the lion just because his t3 is strong when this game will be all about t4 is wrong. (It was often mentioned by devs they want to balance in t4)

And for all the idiots complaining about wl mobility/snares, NOT ONE of you mentions that he is the only mdps without incoming healing debuff. So no pounce and insta killing squishies, because a) they detaunt (if not retarded) and b)(more important) they get full heal.

His mobility gets equalized, and he will fall of in t4. So for **** sake, balance the game around t4 and around gametesting, instead of listening to some whiners on the forum who most of the time can't even play one class properly.

last post: heal leech on DC works fine. it doesn't affect potions. great

tomato wrote:
And for all the idiots complaining about wl mobility/snares, NOT ONE of you mentions that he is the only mdps without incoming healing debuff. So no pounce and insta killing squishies, because a) they detaunt (if not retarded) and b)(more important) they get full heal.

His mobility gets equalized, and he will fall of in t4. So for **** sake, balance the game around t4 and around gametesting, instead of listening to some whiners on the forum who most of the time can't even play one class properly.

No wl dosnt need an inc hdbuff it would make him op

Bretin wrote:WL needs nothing and is fine as it is. He is neither OP nor UP. A "balance" patch i.e. giving him a incoming HD - what everyone is asking for - would simply make him OP.

keep in mind that class balance is most likely an l2p issue.

Coryphaus wrote:

tomato wrote:
And for all the idiots complaining about wl mobility/snares, NOT ONE of you mentions that he is the only mdps without incoming healing debuff. So no pounce and insta killing squishies, because a) they detaunt (if not retarded) and b)(more important) they get full heal.

His mobility gets equalized, and he will fall of in t4. So for **** sake, balance the game around t4 and around gametesting, instead of listening to some whiners on the forum who most of the time can't even play one class properly.

No wl dosnt need an inc hdbuff it would make him op

Bretin wrote:WL needs nothing and is fine as it is. He is neither OP nor UP. A "balance" patch i.e. giving him a incoming HD - what everyone is asking for - would simply make him OP.

keep in mind that class balance is most likely an l2p issue.

And where exactly in my post am I asking for one? (seriously learn to **** read, you tried to pick one thing from my post, and you quote it not even right, good job.)

I said having no inc healdebuff is the cost the wl has to pay for his mobility.

That's so typical, no arguments, just trying to bullshit me...

Tomato didnt say he needs one? He just stated that he does not have one.

tomato wrote:The biggest problem here is nerfing the wl because his t3 is strong.
He already got his armor debuff, pounce and the crit dmg and autoattack haste tactics. (More or less all core tactics.)

I really really really fail to see how this change makes WL not viable. He will be punted once, he lands, he pounces and has a 30 sec immunity timer. Not to mention most smart tanks will try punting the enemy tank anyway instead of the WL. It is only a nerf when fighting in certain places (cant wait to punt a WL in Eternal Citadel haha) but other than that, i won't think it will have any impact.

tomato wrote:
And for all the idiots complaining about wl mobility/snares, NOT ONE of you mentions that he is the only mdps without incoming healing debuff. So no pounce and insta killing squishies, because a) they detaunt (if not retarded) and b)(more important) they get full heal.

Come on man, you always talk about group synergies and what not. WL works perfectly well with a SW (ranged KD, ranged inc heal debuff, pounce). Wl not having an inc heal debuff hurts his solo play, but in a group someone else can take care of that. For example, many WE's prefer using OYK spec in T4 (so no inc hd as well) and just let a Choppa or a Mara take care of the inc hd.

tomato wrote:His mobility gets equalized, and he will fall of in t4. So for **** sake, balance the game around t4 and around gametesting, instead of listening to some whiners on the forum who most of the time can't even play one class properly.

I kinda disagree here. We wont know how long we will stay in T3, so i dont see any reason not to try and balance the game for this tier. Just like we should have balanced T2 and 1 as well. I prefer playing a lvl 40 character in T4 but i understand several people enjoy the lower tiers (and actually level all the way to level cap just by doing lower tiers RvR/SCs). So i dont think it is ok if something is not balanced in lower tiers just because "in T4 it will be balanced". I posted a tank comparison chart on some other thread showing how order tanks got their toys much earlier than destro's in T2. Sure, it doesn't matter anymore in T3, but it still kinda sucks in the lower tiers.

In the end we should aim at having all four tiers balanced. Just because those idiots from EA never did it doesn't mean we can't have that in RoR.

noisestorm wrote:Tomato didnt say he needs one? He just stated that he does not have one.

yes but that was from a thread talking about suggestions for improving wl inT4, and as such if ever wl was given inc hd it would become op

And furthermore i dont feel that this kb change in the grand scheme of things affects wls mobility that much (just maybe wl shenanigans on tor annoc), as long as pounce has no cd, at most it will mildly annoy the wl player? If this results in more x2 slayers then perhaps the effectivness off double slayer should be looked at and 100% sl uptime

Coryphaus wrote:

noisestorm wrote:Tomato didnt say he needs one? He just stated that he does not have one.

yes but that was from a thread talking about suggestions for improving wl inT4, and as such if ever wl was given inc hd it would become op

I dont think it would make them OP. Maybe 1v1 against bad healers.

Not going into quoting wars, but no, from my perspective the game should be balanced around endgame, because this is where in the end the majority of ppl play. If you have a different opinion, fine.

Having no inc hd hurts you even in groupplay, (ever heard of cleanse? and the slayer/wh doesn't get quickly on the same targets the wl pounces.) and the main point I was trying to get across ist that in groupplay, the wl can't pounce on squishies in the backline and kill them (for the reasons I mentioned earlier).
Because that's what so many people seem to complain about. (And yes, maybe compared with a sw, but does this setup make the lion op? if you really think so...)

It's not really about what got nerfed, it's that a class which didn't need any nerfs got nerfed.
And everything you take away from such a class hurts its viability.