Return of Reckoning

Just curious if there are any plans to give BGs more dark protector abilities in the future, and how the community would feel about this. BG is definitely the least played tank and is often joked that it is a selfish tank. It's easy to see why when all their abilities save a few just effect themselves.

IB's have 9 oath friend abilities (4 requiring mastery points. As well as 2 tactics you have to spec for) while BGs have 2 core dark protector abilities, making an IB infinitely better in a melee train, melee duo, melee support tank etc. The IB melee duo is amazing, in no way am I calling for a nerf. It'd just be great to see destro have the same option. Currently Destro doesnt seem to have something that matches that, unless I'm not seeing it.

BGs are amazing at dueling but for anything else (as we all know warhammer isnt about dueling) it seems like the other tanks are way better options. I dont think the BG should have the same type of group support as a chosen or kotbs, but it should still be a class that a group should want to have the way an IB is.

It seems like destro is missing that niche role the IB fills.

Thanks for reading, again I'm just curious to see what people think of this, and get a larger read on how the community feels about this situation, especially the order players.

***not calling for a nerf***

Unlike IB, BG got really good group debuffs and actually works great in melee duos and melee trains. Crimson Death = 10% crit, Hastened Doom = -120 wounds, Furious Howl = -10% block/parry and also add armor and toughness reduction on single targets.

megadeath wrote:Unlike IB, BG got really good group debuffs.

IBs seem to have 1, BGs have 3. That isnt that much of an advantage compared to having 9 abilities that effect your oathfriend.

neokingdom wrote: However 2 of those are at the top of a tree, so you can't access them both.

You actually can. AoE snare is at 10 points now and parry tactic at 7 points.

The only issue i see with BG now is that CD requires a great weapon and stun requires a shield.

megadeath wrote:

neokingdom wrote: However 2 of those are at the top of a tree, so you can't access them both.

You actually can. AoE snare is at 10 points now and parry tactic at 7 points.

Ahh i was looking at the tree online, thanks for the correction. Looking at my masteries in game now. Still 9 abilities that directly effect your oathfriend seems to really outweigh the few debuffs a bg gets.

Firstly the balance fourms prevents you from making balance changes based on apealling to your mirror

Now while IB is a great buff tank, Bg is ment to be a strong debuff tank

The problem is ability redeundency and the fact that other destro classes have superior versions of BGs debuffs namely Mara and BO, and between these 2 classes they make BG not really necessary in parties

TenTonHammer wrote:Firstly the balance fourms prevents you from making balance changes based on apealling to your mirror

That's why i brought it here, I'm just trying to have a discussion about it.

Now while IB is a great buff tank, Bg is ment to be a strong debuff tank

This is the oh so common problem with balance in RoR. That's the intended idea, but it's not implemented well.

The problem is ability redeundency and the fact that other destro classes have superior versions of BGs debuffs namely Mara and BO, and between these 2 classes they make BG not really necessary in parties

And this, the mara wound debuff is superior, BGs dont bring anything unique to the table, so why would one pick a BG for a group.

neokingdom wrote:

TenTonHammer wrote:Firstly the balance fourms prevents you from making balance changes based on apealling to your mirror

That's why i brought it here, I'm just trying to have a discussion about it.

Now while IB is a great buff tank, Bg is ment to be a strong debuff tank

This is the oh so common problem with balance in RoR. That's the intended idea, but it's not implemented well.

The problem is ability redeundency and the fact that other destro classes have superior versions of BGs debuffs namely Mara and BO, and between these 2 classes they make BG not really necessary in parties

And this, the mara wound debuff is superior, BGs dont bring anything unique to the table, so why would one pick a BG for a group.

Well unfortunatly any balance related thread outside the balance fourms tends to get locked

And like you said yeah, Mara has a superior wounds debuff, also better tough debuff, and armor debuff, BO has a better version of the armor debuff for every rage value execept the max rage amount but even then Mara better, also Bo has a superior version of BG snare with no much lower down time and is uncleanseable also BO can buff and debuff multiple stats with its stat steal bellow
furious howl is inferior to choppas drop da basha though the latter is more suited for small scale engagements where you are focusesing targets

CD and furious howl are nice for WB, AoE bombing but in small scale, groups BO and Chosen is just the superior tank combo stuff liks undetauntable and soul killer or choking fury while nice can't compete with the utlity of other destro tanks

Seems like BGs definitely need something. And damn, well hey if it gets locked it gets locked. I'll have to take it elsewhere i guess.

I put this here though because i wasnt offering up any serious balance proposal, I just wanted a light discussion about it.

in my opinion BG should became the destru 2h tank as much SM is for order side, with tactics changed for allow 2h more and the KD made require also parry not only block but good luck with that.