Return of Reckoning

As stated by Aza I don't think question violates any of the rules of this thread.

I have played ROR on an off for around a year now. I took quite a big break but I've always played pretty dang hard when I have been playing. I really don't mind RVR, there are times where it has been some of the most amazing fun I've ever had. So I partially understand why a game originally designed around RvR combat would allow RvR rewards to be the best. But first it was genesis, now it is the new helm/shoulder set, I believe there are other RvR jewelry and also RvR only weapons that drop.

I am by no means asking for people to be able to just say screw RvR because forcing people to do a certain type of content to obtain certain items is a pretty good idea to get that content used.

Side Note - I know you aren't forcing us because we don't have to have it, but if we want to have it, we are technically forced to do certain content so no need for anyone to state that argument. K thanks.

Now that we got that out of the way would it be such a bad thing for these items to have a chance at dropping in SC's? I primarily play NA and I realize this is an EU server but RvR is pretty difficult to pull off. I have to be online around 12-5pm which is not always the easiest thing in the world to pull off. I have heard all of the "filthy casual" "back on live" "get gud" replies you could ever imagine so please act more than 5 and give me some real feedback.

I'm not saying they should drop to the same extent. but lets say you have to kill 10 people for 3 of the new currency which I'd be willing to be 30% is being generous. But maybe a 10% chance? You'd need an insanely large amount of kills but it would definitely help the NA population be able to get the new cosmetics and hopefully future gear.

I know the staff is not a fan of introducing new anything because without client control on a large scale I don't really think they can generate this. But I do know they can swap currencies. For instance, you spend the lets say... avg of 150 hours in SC's and have a chance to drop a Genesis token. I understand that certain 6 mans via supply runs and taking advantage of AAO can get nearly max contribution in any RVR situation but I'm talking about the avg Joe which is 80+% of the pop. 150 hours for a piece of gear that requires a set is nearly insane, but it is a carrot. Maybe just try it with the new two piece set bonus items as a test run.

I know RvR players are worried that less people will RvR and will stick to SC's. I get that RVR sets and SC sets exist for that reason as each has had 1. But these latest items are sort of throwing that off. Genesis was just one. But the purple weapons, and now the two piece sets are making NA players feel like that list of things (they know they don't have to have) but want to have impossible.

- So please if you took the time to read this let me know what you guys think would happen if there was a chance that this new currency could drop? Lets say at 1/3 the rate of RvR drops. Would it break the game? Would it make NA evenings get more action as it can concentrate them to one area as opposed to spreading them out over all the different items of the game designed for larger players? Would it be unfair? I know it will be met with "you don't have to have them" and "I said no... so no" but what do you guys THINK about it lol... Curious if the 40-50 people I've talked to that all agree with me are insane outliers or more so the norm?

Thanks, Convert.

So to understand what you are asking (I did read it all I just want to clarify) you want to see SCs be given a SMALLER (than RVR) chance at dropping the new currency needed for the NEW Helm/Shoulder 2 piece set?

Did I understand you correctly?

I was asking what the community "thinks" about that, but yes.

The current new prices are insane, which is why they are most likely just placeholders; the devs mostly want to observe how fast the "greatest grinders" could do, and then eventually in 6-12 months the prices might drop so that average players might have a chance too.
Same with Conq, once all the 6mans have finisher the grind for the gear and are happily roflstomping undergeared averaged players, the prices will eventually come down to levels that allow casual players a chance to buy them.
Just wait and be patient, an alternative appearance gear is not worth spending half a year grinding empty lakes during NA hours.

Aurandilaz wrote:The current new prices are insane, which is why they are most likely just placeholders; the devs mostly want to observe how fast the "greatest grinders" could do, and then eventually in 6-12 months the prices might drop so that average players might have a chance too.
Same with Conq, once all the 6mans have finisher the grind for the gear and are happily roflstomping undergeared averaged players, the prices will eventually come down to levels that allow casual players a chance to buy them.
Just wait and be patient, an alternative appearance gear is not worth spending half a year grinding empty lakes during NA hours.

- Yeah but what do you think about the idea? that was the question

If we thought scenarios needed more incentive, then we would add things for scenarios. Posts like this are largely ignored by staff because we understand that scenarios are a mini-game, and giving you all the tools to earn RvR rewards is counter-productive to active RvR.

wargrimnir wrote:If we thought scenarios needed more incentive, then we would add things for scenarios. Posts like this are largely ignored by staff because we understand that scenarios are a mini-game, and giving you all the tools to earn RvR rewards is counter-productive to active RvR.

Thanks for the reply. I realize that the staff don't care about this question but it was more directed at the players. Currently the staff feels certain ways about things and from what I can tell it is unlikely they will change. Like flight masters for instance in t4 zones. BUT... With conversation/discussion sometimes new ideas come up and maybe a staff member says... hmm... that actually isn't a bad idea. Just have to plant one seed sometimes and watch it grow.


- About SC mini game -

NA players really only have a mini game then most of the time. Apart from one t4 order guild, the majority of NA players just farm during the week or do SC's. Which is really why I am making this conversation in the first place to see what the NA players think? And to also see what the EU players think.

So any opinions ?

I think Wargrim's opening statement sums it up. Players don't need any(additional) incentive to play SCs. The only time Pops are light is during dead pop times, or when a zone/keep is nearing a lock/take. The first would mean that there is no action anywhere, and the 2nd meaning that players are actively killing each other, which is a good thing.

ORvR on the other hand, requires **** tons of carrots to get people to go out, form a WB, and fight tactically. T2/3 needed some carrots to incentivize population Hence the added RR(x2), XP off(?) item, and sweet gear.

Forcing and incentivizing are often mistaken for each other. Forcing entails actually physically making a person do something. Watch that video of the dude being dragged off a plane. THAT is forcing someone to do something. Adding gear/content that you can attain is incentivizing you towards a series of actions. That's the difference, for the record.

SCs are fun, quick, and if you have a good team easy to farm. We have PUG/Duo SC queue so you aren't Forced to get smashed by premades. I don't think they need any more carrots...

Dabbart wrote:I think Wargrim's opening statement sums it up. Players don't need any(additional) incentive to play SCs. The only time Pops are light is during dead pop times, or when a zone/keep is nearing a lock/take. The first would mean that there is no action anywhere, and the 2nd meaning that players are actively killing each other, which is a good thing.

ORvR on the other hand, requires **** tons of carrots to get people to go out, form a WB, and fight tactically. T2/3 needed some carrots to incentivize population Hence the added RR(x2), XP off(?) item, and sweet gear.

Forcing and incentivizing are often mistaken for each other. Forcing entails actually physically making a person do something. Watch that video of the dude being dragged off a plane. THAT is forcing someone to do something. Adding gear/content that you can attain is incentivizing you towards a series of actions. That's the difference, for the record.

SCs are fun, quick, and if you have a good team easy to farm. We have PUG/Duo SC queue so you aren't Forced to get smashed by premades. I don't think they need any more carrots...

I would take exception with this mindset personally and if I am so bold as to say it, I think this mindset is why ROR isnt even more popular than it is now.

First, some players PREFER SC style play to RVR. That might be hard to believe, maybe you know this. But for many players SCs ARE the end game and RVR is more a "means" to get gear for the "end game" Where as the mentality that seems to be going around here, and other places is that SC is a "mini game" and RVR is the real game. This, while true for some, is false for others. Continuing on that path is sub-optimal IMO.

They are BOTH the "real game". They should not be segregated. I really think this game would do well to seek to "merge" both these avenues by "merging" or creating currency exchange. Players want 1 type of gear or item, they should be able to play what appeals to them and grind items out. This is a separate issue though, but the "looking down on SCs" IMO is a mistake to see it that way.

Second, players ALWAYS need "incentive". I can tell you personally (and I LOVE ROR) that back a year ago when I got 40/40 and my full SC set and weapon. I felt "bored" so I swapped to an alt character but eventually just gave up playing for a bit. People feel "burnt out" or "bored". Heck, even games like Overwatch show this by adding cosmetics and "ranked games" etc. There is always "something to work towards". What I find (personally again) to be an error is thinking that the "work towards" item has to be associated with "power" I can tell you now, that cosmetics are a larger driving force than "power" attained. Offering the shoulder/helm set is a very apparent manifestation of this. I (for one) dont think the set is that good. Will I want it? Yes! Because of the cosmetic look. You dont HAVE to make gear stronger if it looks better OR has a "hard to get" stimga attached to it so people merely look at your character and know "wow... that is impressive". So even with SCs, players NEED incentive. Both for SCs and RVR. I see no need to try and "lock" items or things behind 1 type of play. I think this is merely built off the false mindset that SCs are a "mini game" and therefore the players should be grateful you can even get "BIS" gear in SCs...

Third, I disagree that RVR "requires more" incentive. It ONLY does right now because of how RVR is played. RVR is not a "fun" game mode MOST of the time. Sure, if you get a guild pre-made warband online your going to have a good time and its some of the best PVP Ive ever had! But aside from the few times a week (or month for some people) that happens (because people have lives) RVR is largely an unattainable and not-fun "game mode" for many people. This is where (IMO) RVR can be reformed/recreated to be more FUN which then leads itself to require less "incentive" because people will play it because its FUN. Itll be more akin to SCs where it requires very little "reason" to play.

I dont want to derail this thread. I for one, think the OPs idea is a great idea and I would like to see MORE things able to be "attained" via EITHER game type - RVR or SCs. I think its a dangerous and false mindset to say that RVR should be seen as a "mini game" to the "real game". Many people PREFER SCs to RVR. I think you should allow people to earn whatever gear they want, via both avenues. Thats my opinion and I realize it differs from the ROR Staff, and for that I am sad.

+1 to the OP. I like the idea.