Return of Reckoning

As we know the outcome of large scale fights sadly is determined by ASAP Morale damage. (M2 and M3s)

Theres been several methods of trying to regulate this. First there was the reduced Morale rates wich lead to Morale pumping tactics to overpeform once they were obtaineble Then to try and regulate this there was the Morale scalers. Even when they did work didn't do much to regulate the Morale bomb strategy and in some regards even buffed it.
And order as a realm doesn't even get to use their M4's unless they specificly make an entire group comp for it.

My conlusion is that the Morale rates arn't the problem. Its the Morale dmg. I wanna sugest a new way of trying to deal with dmg morales.

First i would like to sugest a reset of the tactics, abillities and morale scalers to it original vallues. Aswell as reinstating the old 36M/sec if full group or 6M/sec per group member. The tooltip vallues are designed to be ballanced around this rate. Screw to much with this and you gonna get very unballanced game as we allready seen. Some tactics maybe need a +/-10% tweak or 2 sec longer ICD.

Then here comes my sugestion to the actuall Morales.

M1 can only hit 1 target.
M2 caps at 3 targets
M3 caps at 6 targets
M4 caps at 9 targets.

This would prevent fights to actually be over after 10 seconds of fighting, aswell as actually give all classes acess to use M4's

This would deffintly make for a better large scale experience imo.

Also healers M4, Alter Fate needs to be fixed. Its designed to be the recovry mechanic after a sucessfull Morale dump. Currently there is non.

This will TOTALLY not create even bigger blobs.

Due to the bugged state of morale generations when it comes to destro tactics, really difficult to have any kind of discussion regarding damage relevance until they are fixed, if M4's and M2's were consistent to order's who knows what might need a little tweak.

Aleteh wrote:This will TOTALLY not create even bigger blobs.

Zergs are a product of the RVR design tho. Its inevtible aslong as there's a linear path to win the zone. Aslong as the zerg can win both the objective and the fights by zerging theres gonna be zergs. With or without Morales the Zerg wins.

xanderous wrote:Due to the bugged state of morale generations when it comes to destro tactics, really difficult to have any kind of discussion regarding damage relevance until they are fixed, if M4's and M2's were consistent to order's who knows what might need a little tweak.

We played for several months without the scalers. And a couple of months with em working. And yes tge tactics do overperforms due to the reduced static Morale rates. But since it needs engineering anyway might aswell try a different aproach to it as it doesn't solve the issue of 10 second large scale fights anyway.

I think https://github.com/WarEmu/WarBugs/issues/9484 needs to be fixed before any changes to morales happen tbh. I believe thats what Xanderous was talking about

roadkillrobin wrote:

xanderous wrote:Due to the bugged state of morale generations when it comes to destro tactics, really difficult to have any kind of discussion regarding damage relevance until they are fixed, if M4's and M2's were consistent to order's who knows what might need a little tweak.

We played for several months without the scalers. And a couple of months with em working. And yes tge tactics do overperforms due to the reduced static Morale rates. But since it needs engineering anyway might aswell try a different aproach to it as it doesn't solve the issue of 10 second large scale fights anyway.

While i am all for trying new things, yes indeed, i think it would be suitable to first fix the issue with the Morales scaling incorrectly first, something that hasn't been particularly been addressed rather than scraping them entirely, example being if you have a flat tire, maybe change it before attempting to reinvent the engine.

Yes I understand. But even fixed, the scaler is designed so someone can make an earlier morale dump. Wich still resault in a morale dump being made within just a few seconds of the engagement and people dying without actually get to play. Having M2s as powerfull as M4s in terms of killing capacity is the core problem.

We need fix (reduce or rework) moral pumping from all side. This will allow participating in the meta wb all tanks from the side of the destro. And also it will allow to have a normal confrontation in big battles.

roadkillrobin wrote:Yes I understand. But even fixed, the scaler is designed so someone can make an earlier morale dump. Wich still resault in a morale dump being made within just a few seconds of the engagement and people dying without actually get to play. Having M2s as powerfull as M4s in terms of killing capacity is the core problem.

The scalar for non-pump natural moral generation is currently working for both sides and scales accordingly. The bug is that overwhelmingly certain morale pumps are not being effected by this scalar, allowing them to dominate smaller scale fights while getting the same pump rates as a large scale 75man+ fights . That is what needs to be fixed first. How did you come to the conclusion that there would be more morale gain from fixing this?