Return of Reckoning

Are there a lot of differences between Choppas and Slayers? At a quick glance they seem identical.

It used to be that Slayer was hands down better than choppa due to ID and shatter limbs but after nerfs they are more inline with each other though Slayer has a better over all AoE and 2H tree

Choppa is more of a one trick single target focused class

Both classes suffer from a major bug regarding their class mechanic: 8689
Due to the bug it's impossible to stay alive by dropping rage once you got some dots while in the red/berserk stance, which means that you are forced to use the "power through" tactic.
If you don't plan to play together with lots of friends who will save/assist you, i recommend to play something else.

Luth wrote:Both classes suffer from a major bug regarding their class mechanic: 8689
Due to the bug it's impossible to stay alive by dropping rage once you got some dots while in the red/berserk stance, which means that you are forced to use the "power through" tactic.
If you don't plan to play together with lots of friends who will save/assist you, i recommend to play something else.

I don't belive thats a bug but rather how Az implemented the non dynamic combat mechanic formula to only check dmg and hots when they are aplied instead of checking it for every tick. I remember him saying this in a old thread. I can't remember which thread or topic but I do remember he said that and that he wouldn't change either.

As for Choppa vs Slayer. They look very simular on the surface but they really arn't. I've been lvling up a slayer recently and have had a Choppa for awhile, and the Slayers are just much better designed and have better set of tools. Slayers got much better tactics and abillities and there are frankly not much Choppas can do that Slayers can't do better.
The Slayer ST dps is probobly the highest in the game. Im getting numbers of 1400 ST dps on my Slayer at rank 36 against lvl 40 mobs. I get about the same on my lvl 40 Choppa with full merc against lvl 40 mobs and that is with missing a tactic and bad gear on the Slayer.

Choppas used to have tactic on crit proc, intiative/weaponskill debuff/self buff (Was dat yer finger. Mirrored tactic is Wrist Slash for SW) that i belive some elements of stacked with abillities. And when they lost that one they also lost much of their dmg potential.

roadkillrobin wrote: I don't belive thats a bug but rather how Az implemented the non dynamic combat mechanic formula to only check dmg and hots when they are aplied instead of checking it for every tick. I remember him saying this in a old thread. I can't remember which thread or topic but I do remember he said that and that he wouldn't change either.

I actually linked that in the bug report: viewtopic.php?f=52&t=16694
Aza told me that percentage based buffs/debuffs are not affected by this rule, therefore it makes no sense that the percentage based self debuff is not affected by that -> bug.
Even without this information, the current handling obviously renders one of the ideas behind the class mechanic pointless, which is dynamically trading defense for damage and vice versa. This bug makes the classes even more group dependant than they were used to be.

Luth wrote:

roadkillrobin wrote: I don't belive thats a bug but rather how Az implemented the non dynamic combat mechanic formula to only check dmg and hots when they are aplied instead of checking it for every tick. I remember him saying this in a old thread. I can't remember which thread or topic but I do remember he said that and that he wouldn't change either.

I actually linked that in the bug report: viewtopic.php?f=52&t=16694
Aza told me that percentage based buffs/debuffs are not affected by this rule, therefore it makes no sense that the percentage based self debuff is not affected by that -> bug.
Even without this information, the current handling obviously renders one of the ideas behind the class mechanic pointless, which is dynamically trading defense for damage and vice versa. This bug makes the classes even more group dependant than they were used to be.

It drops the armor and resistances based on percentage rathen increasing damage you take by percentage so thats why. It's not a flat percentage modifier on the damage. Im 90% sure it due to the non dynamic combat formula.

And i'm 99.9% sure that it's a side effect of the non-dynamic combat formula, i didn't write anything else; my info was simply that percentage based debuffs don't follow this rule, which could be wrong and only percentage based damage multipliers are meant.
My point is:
Besides that the general handling makes the combat less dynamic (which can be good or bad, depending on the point of view), the handling makes choppa/slayer dynamic class mechanic management pointless (which is definetely bad), thus indirectly forces the use of "wot rules/power through" and makes the classes even more a burden to tanks/healers, which causes other side effects, e.g. there is even less reason to take a choppa over a marauder in a premade or mentioned disadvantages in situations when you don't have a full group as backup.

Luth wrote:Both classes suffer from a major bug regarding their class mechanic: 8689
Due to the bug it's impossible to stay alive by dropping rage once you got some dots while in the red/berserk stance, which means that you are forced to use the "power through" tactic.
If you don't plan to play together with lots of friends who will save/assist you, i recommend to play something else.

Would something like a White Lion be better for pugs? I know that Order is lacking competent melee in t4, so I'm looking to fill that role.

Aebel wrote:

Luth wrote:Both classes suffer from a major bug regarding their class mechanic: 8689
Due to the bug it's impossible to stay alive by dropping rage once you got some dots while in the red/berserk stance, which means that you are forced to use the "power through" tactic.
If you don't plan to play together with lots of friends who will save/assist you, i recommend to play something else.

Would something like a White Lion be better for pugs? I know that Order is lacking competent melee in t4, so I'm looking to fill that role.

Pug tanks are terrible players mostly %90 doesnt use guard properly, same with pug healers and dps. So never play a class that is dependant on others. All melee classes are in that category

gke96 wrote:

Aebel wrote:

Luth wrote:Both classes suffer from a major bug regarding their class mechanic: 8689
Due to the bug it's impossible to stay alive by dropping rage once you got some dots while in the red/berserk stance, which means that you are forced to use the "power through" tactic.
If you don't plan to play together with lots of friends who will save/assist you, i recommend to play something else.

Would something like a White Lion be better for pugs? I know that Order is lacking competent melee in t4, so I'm looking to fill that role.

Pug tanks are terrible players mostly %90 doesnt use guard properly, same with pug healers and dps. So never play a class that is dependant on others. All melee classes are in that category

and that line of thinking is behind the usual all rangedthemed game in order. the problem of course is when the full horde of mdps of destru stumble in a sc with a few competent healers and some reliable tanks wich crap order .