Return of Reckoning

Anyone else notice an increase in WP just completely failing and getting you killed an increased amount in the last week? It used to fail maybe 1/4 of the time now it's failing over half i'd say. Wanna know if i'm just unlucky or if the rest of you are getting this too.

It no longer works in the air. Are you jumping around?

Uh, immunities and such? Whirling Pin seems to be just as reliable as ever, with the exception that Wargrimnir is referring to.

Nothing out of the ordinary for me. As long as you're not trying to jump away from an mdps with their immunity.

wargrimnir wrote:It no longer works in the air. Are you jumping around?

It triggers in the air about 1/3 of the time if its at the same time as them, but cause of the delay you go second. (Granted i'm NA so might be a latency thing idk)

But no I'm stable, see the melee train coming pop WP and nothing. No one gets snared, I don't move, WP goes on CD, takes a GCD, and I'm stuck with 3 melee arriving on my doorstep just in time for me to die. Note that it happens like 1/10th of the time in PvE as well.

Odd it's just happening to me maybe i'm just really bad or something.

I would suppose if one of them has Resolute Defence active, it will block WP from working. Pretty common tactic for melee characters trying to chase down someone kiting.

Keep in mind, immunities are checked on the Mdps closest to you.
E.g.:
Say you are being engaged by 3 Mdps, 2 of which have no immunities/snare immunities/RD up, the third has one of these immunities. The third without immunities is closest to you at the moment you try to use Whirling Pin, so the abilitiy checks for immunities on it and cancels the punt based on the check and finding of immunities on the Mdps closest to you.
If however one of the other 2 Mdps without immunities is closest to you, the check for immunities will be performed on either and will yield no postives - in which case your punt isn't canceld, even though in the group of Mdps is someone with immunities.

Checks for AoE and such are performed on a range-basis, hence you'll see for example AoE never hit the EXACT same targets in a bombing situation, if the targets are even slightly moving away/towards you or change position otherwise (targetcap and so on, yadayada).

Abbd.: Note: All checks might be taken into account (= the first finding of an immunity might cancel it) - even though my observations lead me to the conclusion that only the closest check is relevant for these kind of abilities -, so take the above with a grain of salt.

Darosh wrote:Keep in mind, immunities are checked on the Mdps closest to you.
E.g.:
Say you are being engaged by 3 Mdps, 2 of which have no immunities/snare immunities/RD up, the third has one of these immunities. The third without immunities is closest to you at the moment you try to use Whirling Pin, so the abilitiy checks for immunities on it and cancels the punt based on the check and finding of immunities on the Mdps closest to you.
If however one of the other 2 Mdps without immunities is closest to you, the check for immunities will be performed on either and will yield no postives - in which case your punt isn't canceld, even though in the group of Mdps is someone with immunities.

Checks for AoE and such are performed on a range-basis, hence you'll see for example AoE never hit the EXACT same targets in a bombing situation, if the targets are even slightly moving away/towards you (targetcap and so on, yadayada).

Abbd.: Note: All checks might be taken into account - even though my observations lead me to the conclusion that only the closest check is relevant for these kind of abilities -, so take the above with a grain of salt.

But why would WP have to check other's seeing as its a Self-Punt that applies a snare (so doesn't matter on Unstoppable or Unmovable) and wouldn't explain why it fails in PvE sometimes (though rarely).

Also does WP check on an enemy? Because it needs no target and works just fine with no enemy around so why would an enemy's status affect it working (Seeing as its a PBAoE Snare and a Self Punt, no target needed has no offensive ticks or interactions). Would the interaction with Resolute Defense be a bug in that case or just a wonky mechanic we have to play around?

Manatikik wrote: But why would WP have to check other's seeing as its a Self-Punt that applies a snare (so doesn't matter on Unstoppable or Unmovable) and wouldn't explain why it fails in PvE sometimes (though rarely).

Also does WP check on an enemy? Because it needs no target and works just fine with no enemy around so why would an enemy's status affect it working (Seeing as its a PBAoE Snare and a Self Punt, no target needed has no offensive ticks or interactions). Would the interaction with Resolute Defense be a bug in that case or just a wonky mechanic we have to play around?

It is essentially handeld as an singletarget-punt on a AoE-trigger/check, so it checks for immunities on your target(s). There is little difference between sending a target flying away from you, and sending yourself flying away from the target (=selfpunt).
One could argue that the immunity-check could be handeld on the target you have targetted, rather than in the area the snare is applied in. (Abbd.: Note: That could open up for mechanical abuse tho ~ targetting someone without immunities in the very back while some Mdps with immunity is charging towards you...)

Abbd.: As to your PvE observations, the selfpunt goes of the soft-cc immunity (punts, roots, ...) that is converted to a hard-cc immunity (kd, silence, disarm, ...) in PvE for all things related to punts. So if you used your kd on a NPC in PvE and tried to use the selfpunt afterwards, it'd conflict with the hard-cc immunity applied through the initial kd, as the soft-cc immunity would be applied as hard-cc immunity aswell, as it is considered a punt rather than a root.

Abbd.: Note the directly above is how it <should> work out if all things were/are standardized. I'd like to see Wargrimnir's take on it, as I am just a pleb.

Darosh wrote:

Manatikik wrote: But why would WP have to check other's seeing as its a Self-Punt that applies a snare (so doesn't matter on Unstoppable or Unmovable) and wouldn't explain why it fails in PvE sometimes (though rarely).

Also does WP check on an enemy? Because it needs no target and works just fine with no enemy around so why would an enemy's status affect it working (Seeing as its a PBAoE Snare and a Self Punt, no target needed has no offensive ticks or interactions). Would the interaction with Resolute Defense be a bug in that case or just a wonky mechanic we have to play around?

It is essentially handeld as an singletarget-punt on a AoE-trigger/check, so it checks for immunities on your target(s). There is little difference between sending a target flying away from you, and sending yourself flying away from the target (=selfpunt).
One could argue that the immunity-check could be handeld on the target you have targetted, rather than in the area the snare is applied in. (Abbd.: Note: That could open up for mechanical abuse tho ~ targetting someone without immunities in the very back while some Mdps with immunity is charging towards you...)

Abbd.: As to your PvE observations, the selfpunt goes of the soft-cc immunity (punts, roots, ...) that is converted to a hard-cc immunity (kd, silence, disarm, ...) in PvE for all things related to punts. So if you used your kd on a NPC in PvE and tried to use the selfpunt afterwards, it'd conflict with the hard-cc immunity applied through the initial kd, as the soft-cc immunity would be applied as hard-cc immunity aswell, as it is considered a punt rather than a root.

Abbd.: Note the directly above is how it <should> work out if all things were/are standardized. I'd like to see Wargrimnir's take on it, as I am just a pleb.

Interesting that's how selfpunts are calculated... I'll do some damgerous testing in some SC's later with immunities to see if that was my issue all along. On the PvE front; nope just 2 LA's to draw aggro then a WP to snare em and doesn't work sometimes, don't know why so I figured maybe there was some connection there but I guess not.

Maybe "should" is the wrong word; working as intended/implemented would be better