Return of Reckoning

There is a balance discussion going on right now on da toughest bellow. I can't write as freely there as I can here.

I will provide the reason I think on why I think the toughest bellow exists. So this is a opinion piece.
If you don't want to read this wall of text in short I think the toughest bellow exists to assist in morale bomb protection in a tank wall group comp that's designed for a warband keep defense situation.

There are 3 phases to this game concerning RvR. Keep offense, Keep defense, and Roaming. There is a career trainer in each keep. Depending on what phase of RvR your in you can switch your spec to the situation. A highly organized guild like phalanx could en masse switch spec's to the phase of RvR your in. If your doing keep defense phase you could switch to da toughest spec to participate in a tank wall.

First to start off I think the mythic dev's thought tank wall's would be a thing. It is not a lasting strategy. I know tank walls have fallen out of favor with the community but I think da toughest tree was designed with this in mind. What Tank wall's do though is buy you time. Time for what? Time to reach a morale bomb condition and swing the fight in your favor. The morale gain rates were a lot faster on the mythic server's so if you can buy just say 10 to 20 extra seconds thats a big deal. It is not a big deal on this server because of the dirty dirty slow morale gain rates. You could reach your m4 in 100 sec's baseline on the mythic server's or 60 sec's if you cared about morale gain rates and took all the tools available to increase your morale gain rates.

How tough is offensive cross guarded tanks? Pretty tough right? How tough is cross-guarded defensive tanks? Outrageously tough. When Would you use this? In a keep defense. What will tank wall's encounter quite a bit? Morale bombs. How do you counter morale bombs? There are many way's but one of which is wounds. How high can you push your wounds on your BO? Really really high especially if you have a gear set with wounds on it. Just passively experimenting I've pushed my wounds to 11k health.The enemy has to commit to a really high instant damage morale bombs to get past your tank wall.

What does da toughest bellow do? It increases your wounds by 480 hitpoints once it trigger's. BO's have a wound's baseline tactic that further increases your wounds by 1600 hit points. What is in da toughest tree and has always been there? Can't hit me. Can't hit me is a 50% increase to your block value. If you take saving da runts tactic and your using can't hit me and your taking constant damage you can permanently upkeep can't hit me. Can't hit me provides a attack back to the attacker. What can this do? It can trigger a bellow. Tank wall's are constantly taking Single target damage and splash damage. Which mean's your triggering your bellow's like crazy. You know that whole pve thing BO's do that can farm a million mob's? There is a in game RvR purpose for it.

You can reach extremely high block value's on your BO. You got can't hit me 50% block, 10% base block, good wif shield 10% block, Less stabbin me 10% block, and renown block 18%. Without breathing hard you can get 80% block and likely 100% block if you had the gear and renown spec'd into it.

Ok The group comp. This is a premade quality tank wall group comp.
4 Toughest BO's and 2 shaman's Or
3 Toughest BO's and 1 Boss and 2 shaman's.
Minimal amount of spec points to allow for flexability.

Toughest BO
http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=bo; ... :4470:4497:
Boss BO
http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=bo; ... 469:4470:0:

What does this group comp have?
Potentially all tanks have 11k wounds. 10k for boss spec if taken
Toughest tanks self healing by 480 every 10 sec's.
Daisy chain your guards or Cross guard.
You have the option too permanently upkeep quite yer squablin m1 for 10% addition parry/dodge
You have the option too permanently upkeep walk it off m2 for morale toughness 160 which stacks with ability toughness.
You have the option to maintain ID for 40 sec's out of a minute.
4 of your tank wall player's have 80 to 100% block value. This makes you relatively immune to Ap cc abilities.
Shaman's can push your toughness up by 240 using do sumfin useful so your getting 400 toughness buff higher then normal.
If you spec'd into it you have the option to cycle Can't Touch Us m4 for a 3000 absorb 200 action point feed every 15 sec's. The AP feed may eliminate the need to slot in savin da runts tactic slotted to permanently upkeep Can't touch us m4. Or you keep savin da runts tactic and if your getting ap drained you pop Can't touch Us.
All 4 BO player's have the option to slot loudmouth tactic and machine gun down targets if your assisting.
There is a lot of interesting tactic set ups you can do with a group comp like this.

If your using a Boss spec BO in your BO tank wall group comp
You have a adaptive defensive bellow with da greenest bellow. Your providing 990 armor buff to your tank wall and 378 resists when your getting hit by splash damage.
If the enemy tries to melee morale bomb you pre-emptively pop Yer Nothin m4 for AE melee morale drain.

With 80% to 100% block value on defensive cross guarded tanks with a max value da greenest bellow. Your shutting off AP damage. This group comp can easily stand in the middle of a keep hallway and tank a warband. The 11/12k wounds is morale bomb protection and da toughest bellow helps provide this. If the enemy tries to limp in on a damage over time morale bomb it won't work. Or I should correctly say It would be hard to pull off with a damage over time morale bomb. You need to drop a instant damage morale bomb higher then 11k damage to get past this group comp.

This is obviously a group comp made with the intention of a warband support. The other 3 groups bring the pain. You only need 4 BO's and 2 Shaman's to run this comp in a warband. Those player's could be cookie cutter whatever but when the keep defense happen's they are willing to switch spec's and carry a wounds gear set on them. This could be just a trick in a organizer's pocket.

footpatrol2 wrote:There is a balance discussion going on right now on da toughest bellow. I can't write as freely there as I can here.

You can if you follow the rules. For example, this post would be a good counter to the OP's proposal since you try to prove that DT is fine as it is and needs no buffs. Then someone else would need to debunk you.

However if you derail to "racial groups" (like you usually do) then yeah, I would not let you write freely about it there.

This post mention's a racial group group comp which is why I kept it out of the balance forums. As I mentioned in the balance forums I think DT should be increased to its original state of 96 wounds buff at max value as opposed too 48 wounds buff.

Which is why this thread is ok

Uf, I really find it hard to believe I would ever use toughest in a tank wall. I never tried CHM in a keep defense for some reason, but I definitely can and will. Our problem in the guild is that we kinda lack BOs. I would love to make a greenskin only party inside a wb, there's many interesting things you can do. But I still don't see it. The wound buff is just so small, considering BWs can crit me for almost 1k for some reason, even with decent ini and capped resists. And when you fight the zerg which has a crap ton of dmg coming your way (and I have many times), 420 more hp seriously seems like a joke, especially when morales start flying around. But if it buffed for 960 like you say it did, I might actually consider it. I rather use stat steal which will boost my whole party at least for some amount, and I trust my healers to keep me alive in big battles (which they do quite nicely)

On your thread.

DPS is king, Morales are king, burst dmg is king.
a proper wb setup which is running at least 3, more like 5 BWs, 8 tanks etc will morale drop n bomb you to pieces is my assumption, 1200 dmg per BW, 1200 over 3 sec with raze. Not speaking of WW supp, slayers DD etc. that's only 13 out of 24.
BWs hit really hard, even with full conq on a BO.

your group has 0 dps, an attrition war is usually never a win. at least not with ICD on tactic and scalers, in my opinion it even shifted more into M2 drop.
To the middle specc I've written enough I think. No DPS, etc. Full Conq and you got wounds cap with tactic + conq procc if you want, no need to spec for it to gain wounds and run that bellow. If the gear is below conq,.. which is atm ruin or BL, I'm pretty sure your grp will melt. and like mentioned even with conq...

what's the counter to stationary funneling of you got no canons? rift. do that and bomb and the group is gone. better, rift the group behind it if you can and start dismantling.

TL;DR:
Can you funnel and wipe a pug WB with it? perhabs / pretty sure
Can you funnel and wipe an organized WB with it? I tend to say now.

On Topic... I have no desire to read another epic novel by FootPatrol2. Edit: Didn't mean that as an insult btw. I don't agree with your stuff, but it is well thought out and explained.

Yes the greenest is pretty bad, ruined by stacking and potions. I wouldn't say though that the toughest tree is bad. Like Dabbart said, YMM and SMH are both very good abilities, which make specing into the tree quite worth it. But going all the way to CHM is prerty pointless, and Ragah explained why. Eh, I still think the greenest comes down to racial groups again, and footpatrol has some really good points that are hard to overlook. GS really seem to be designed with racial groups in mind, and a lot of things fall short when you start mixing groups. And I guess you can say that for many races.

#LeaveDaToughestAlone #DinDuNuffinWrong