Return of Reckoning

nailinthehead wrote: ↑Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:16 pm Actually few days ago I saw a WP in BFP wielding two hammers... Dont know how it is possible tho, couldn't inspect his profile.

Bugged alternate appearence, most have been removed, but not all.

Well I’ve been enjoying mine so far only lvl 10.
When I duo with my bro I usually go 2H hammer since he’s an IB. However when I’m pugging random groups, more often then not I’m one of the few healers so I just go 1H hammer and book offhand and mostly heal. Bought gear for each situation, but once I start needing to spec into lines I’m sure this won’t be as effective.
So far so good/fun though I enjoy the flexibility

Torquemadra wrote: ↑Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:27 am 2h AAs allow for larger burst.

I would challenge part of this statement. Its not the fact that the item is 2H that equates to most of its applied burst capability, but rather that the majority of 2H have slower attack speeds. DW beats 2H in nearly every category.

All instances below use a 2h weapon dps of 81.2, and a 1h weapon dps of 56.

With 1050 str and both weapon types using a 2.4 speed:
1H: 386 + 247 (offhand) = 633 (498 average because off-hand proc rate) [207 dps]
2H: 447 [186.2]

With 1050 str 1h weapon at 2.4, 2h weapon at 3.6 (conq emblem spds)
1H: 386 + 247 (offhand) = 633 (498) [207]
2H: 670 [186.2]

With 1050 str, 1H weapon at 1.4, 2H weapon at 4.7 (extremes that I remember offhand)
1H: 225 + 144 = 369 (290) [207]
2H: 875 [186.2]

Torquemadra wrote: ↑Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:27 am The Warrior Priests 10% defensive strikethrough (block AND parry) is a much better boon to damage than 10% parry.

Are we sure that's how that is atm? My .getstats shows no block strikethrough with a 2h equipped. Should I bug report that?

Torquemadra wrote: ↑Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:27 am

GARRYJ wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:28 am Ive seen ppl say that DoK dmg is superior to WP. Do WP have any particular adavantage(s) over DoKs? If so, what are they?

Given the OP specifically asked about damage lets stick to damage in wrath -

Prayer of righteous does 17% more damage than celerity in lieu of snare.

Soulfire does 44% more damage per second than fell sacrifice, yes its cast time blows but you can synergize accelerated intimation off Hammer of Sigmar should you wish for a 1s cast.

Guilty Soul does decent damage.

The Warrior Priests 10% defensive strikethrough (block AND parry) is a much better boon to damage than 10% parry.

2h AAs allow for larger burst.

Dualwielding is 45 % more hits so 45% more procs => 17% more damage on a proc is not gonna fill the gap.
is the 1 sec ICD on proc compensating ?

2 DOK in a group is 2 dps Covenant + snare + heal

DOK healdebuff procs on dots crit... Fell sacrifice 24sec aoe dot is more a mass healdebuff applier then a damage ability.
WP healdebuff does no damage but seems undefendable as a consequence, so ok why not (single target and melee ability still).

Devour Essence is both damage and heal, it does not require a hit to land no AP cost... I think it can proc convenant and any proc as well like any pulsing ability = more burst

Torquemadra wrote: ↑Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:43 pm
Nice try, procs are on a ICD

You mean that one can only have one proc of any kind in 1sec delay ? One of two covenant but not both ?
I did not know that thanks for the clarification. I thought but never checked it that the ICD was individual for each kind of proc.

People tend to forget something about dok dps , it general do outdps the wp because for most part spam seeral aoe attacks , doks drops 3 aoes wich while not good dmg it ends piling up superior dmg numbers on sc chart boards.lash, fell sacrifice and devour. wp has only 2 . and is rare to see one of them actualy even botering to use lash or even soulfire.

Now if we talk about raw single target damage, usualy the wp can do more on squishies and actualy is way more durable than the dok.

Dok real edge over wp used to be his covenants wich with current icd aplied to these isnt any more as good as it used to be .

most problem of dps wps on pug enviroment are the same as dok, its a total bias towards em from players, people just hate em and will biatch and moan or dont support, usualy dps dok wps need to prove with alot of skills they deserve the support of other players.

Wp problem is even worse than dok because while dok Can Hide himself btw the plenty of mdps hordes of destruction, the wp dont have that luxury due for the large ammount of rdps on order. wich mean he gonna be find himself victim of rdps or people who know how to deal with em (bork players are realy a scourge of wp because most of them run not in da face wich is a real pain for m wps and when they combine it with taunt and thc and double armour debuff it usualy ends with dead dps wpon a sc).

Arteker616 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:16 am People tend to forget something about dok dps , it general do outdps the wp because for most part spam seeral aoe attacks , doks drops 3 aoes wich while not good dmg it ends piling up superior dmg numbers on sc chart boards.lash, fell sacrifice and devour. wp has only 2 . and is rare to see one of them actualy even botering to use lash or even soulfire.

Now if we talk about raw single target damage, usualy the wp can do more on squishies and actualy is way more durable than the dok.

Dok real edge over wp used to be his covenants wich with current icd aplied to these isnt any more as good as it used to be .

Having played both of them, I would say that the DPS DOK does both more ST and AOE DPS than the WP. WP only has higher initial burst, due to 2h. Dual wield + potentially two damaging covenants (if you have double dok, which I think is advised when using a DPS DOK) + devour essence + actual viable damage morales (M3, a #kek M4 DoT) offers more damage per second than that which the WP brings. Also worth noting that DPS DOK has access to proc weapons in the form of Subjugator and epic weapons. This all adds up.

DPS WP can crit sliiightly higher, but the DPS DOK brings better ST DPS. This is truer than ever after SM res debuff was changed to no longer double stack (rightly so, in retrospect). Melee heal WP is better than melee heal DOK, though.

(Not a whine btw. Just observations)

peterthepan3 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:23 am

Arteker616 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:16 am People tend to forget something about dok dps , it general do outdps the wp because for most part spam seeral aoe attacks , doks drops 3 aoes wich while not good dmg it ends piling up superior dmg numbers on sc chart boards.lash, fell sacrifice and devour. wp has only 2 . and is rare to see one of them actualy even botering to use lash or even soulfire.

Now if we talk about raw single target damage, usualy the wp can do more on squishies and actualy is way more durable than the dok.

Dok real edge over wp used to be his covenants wich with current icd aplied to these isnt any more as good as it used to be .

Having played both of them, I would say that the DPS DOK does both more ST and AOE DPS than the WP. WP only has higher initial burst, due to 2h. Dual wield + potentially two damaging covenants (if you have double dok, which I think is advised when using a DPS DOK) + devour essence + actual viable damage morales (M3, a #kek M4 DoT) offers more damage per second than that which the WP brings. Also worth noting that DPS DOK has access to proc weapons in the form of Subjugator and epic weapons. This all adds up.

DPS WP can crit sliiightly higher, but the DPS DOK brings better ST DPS. This is truer than ever after SM res debuff was changed to no longer double stack (rightly so, in retrospect). Melee heal WP is better than melee heal DOK, though.

(Not a whine btw. Just observations)

Ok so given all that, shouldn't this be a big deal? Isn't this a major balance concern? I mean shouldn't this be evened out somehow? It always bothered me on live and it has been this way since the get-go, as I prefer to play WPs and would think making both sides totally equal in all aspects of healing and damage would be a major goal to shoot for.

I think warrior priests can take a better beating than Doks. I have a 40/40 dok, and a 30 something wp. They have better racial tactics, and they look so much better than Doks.

No, shouldnt be a big deal. No it isn't a major balance concern. No it doesn't have to be evened out. Yes it bothers many people.

However, balance is done faction-wide. Remove the idea of "mirrors" from your head and you will have a much better time. However, any balance changes you would like to suggest, feel free to put them in the gameplay and balance forum with hard data and evidence to back up your idea.