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Slayer/Choppa Detaunts

These proposals have passed an internal review and are implemented in some way on the server. Review for specific implementation details.
richard1032
Posts: 42

Re: Slayer/Choppa Detaunts [Close Date May 4]

Post#31 » Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:38 pm

richard1032 wrote: Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:28 pm
Spoiler:
I think the detaunt should be double in length, half cool down, drops rage, gives 100% damage buff, gives 100% aa buff, give immunity to snares, change your cloak to a red colour and temporarily add a rune in the shape of an S on your chest.

Littlebomber
Fandanfinlyman
You know better. - Dan
Can't help a slayer for trying :D

To be constructive dropping rage on detaunt is a good idea as there is no point in detaunting before you drop rage so usually it takes 2 gcd's.

Another idea but not as good is to merge the toughness buff with the detaunt.

Littlebomber
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adamthelc
Posts: 832

Re: Slayer/Choppa Detaunts [Close Date May 4]

Post#32 » Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:41 pm

I dont have a problem with the detuants being different for different classes. But if its going to be different, it should be something more suited to the class.

I also think slayers and choppas are different when it comes to this. ID makes a detaunt much harder to use on a slayer than a choppa.

With a slayer in mind, you are one of the softest classes with 2 defensives that arent really designed to work that well.

There is also the problem with the abilities proposed because what it forces the player to do. Other mdps can pop a detuant and contiue what they are doing. Unless you are running a GW spellbreaker build it much harder for a Slayer to do that.

They should have some defensive CD thats not a morale that doesnt force them to run away, run a high risk of instantly being negated or nerf their damage by wiping their rage.

Most other dps can keep up close to the same ability usage on the prority target, while benefiting from a detaunt.

Considering all of this I think that detaunt should be changed to negate the penalty of being berserk for its duration. Not the best defensive, but its something they could use and function in a similar manner to other dps.

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Scrilian
Posts: 1570

Re: Slayer/Choppa Detaunts [Close Date May 4]

Post#33 » Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:28 pm

My take on it is that Slayer might need a 5sec/10cd for Dual wield build, due to it being likely broken early by ID.
And on the other hand do nicely with 15sec/30cd for GW, leaving much more GCDs free of casting detaunt, thus more damage can be done and AP saved.
Either way, current 5/30 is not acceptable for both Slayer/Choppa and should be brought up to the level of other MDPS.
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GROTRUK
Posts: 39

Re: Slayer/Choppa Detaunts [Close Date May 4]

Post#34 » Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:05 pm

Spoiler:
Wowowow !
What the hell are you talkin' about ?

Change the detaunt spells doesn't matter with all those AOE slayer/choppa on the server.
You just need to spec singletarget and do not spam AOE everywhere in the hope of stealing a kill
The most interesting thing is if this detaunt was be undisruptable (because the actual one is always be... even by any career)
And don't turn off rage on it. (don't forget the rage is the must have to deal so if you purge it to push on specific target you can't do the job...)

The main problem for the choppa/slayer is of all these RDPS upgrade. Now the live DPSDEALER are useless on this alpha.
I think you dropped something, you should read it before posting here.

viewtopic.php?f=95&t=17556

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Darosh
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Posts: 1197

Re: Slayer/Choppa Detaunts [Close Date May 4]

Post#35 » Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:17 pm

GROTRUK wrote: Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:05 pm Wowowow !
What the hell are you talkin' about ?

Change the detaunt spells doesn't matter with all those AOE slayer/choppa on the server.
You just need to spec singletarget and do not spam AOE everywhere in the hope of stealing a kill
The most interesting thing is if this detaunt was be undisruptable (because the actual one is always be... even by any career)
And don't turn off rage on it. (don't forget the rage is the must have to deal so if you purge it to push on specific target you can't do the job...)

The main problem for the choppa/slayer is of all these RDPS upgrade. Now the live DPSDEALER are useless on this alpha.
The main problem for choppa/slayer is that they tend to run solo 24/7 and super glass in spite of it.

I don't unterstand how active AoE is even relevant, even the worst of pugs will stop spamming flurry, ID and drop rage before detaunting (so no WS/NE/SL breaking detaunt either) - mind you in 9/10 cases the Slayer/CH will be kd/disarmed anyway.
The only relevant AoE is Onslaught/CH equivalent and ID, which you wouldn't/couldn't use just as liberally as is the case whilst pugfarming.

Furthermore, I don't see as how you would even bother pushing after using detaunt, provided in good play you are being guarded ~ leaving detaunt for guardstrips... dropping rage is pretty much mandatory in such a scenario, too, as has been elaborated throughout the thread. So, letting detaunt drop rage would make little difference, it's merely a QoL change (provided duration/CD stay the same).

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adamthelc
Posts: 832

Re: Slayer/Choppa Detaunts [Close Date May 4]

Post#36 » Mon Apr 23, 2018 2:21 am

Darosh wrote: Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:17 pm
GROTRUK wrote: Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:05 pm Wowowow !
What the hell are you talkin' about ?

Change the detaunt spells doesn't matter with all those AOE slayer/choppa on the server.
You just need to spec singletarget and do not spam AOE everywhere in the hope of stealing a kill
The most interesting thing is if this detaunt was be undisruptable (because the actual one is always be... even by any career)
And don't turn off rage on it. (don't forget the rage is the must have to deal so if you purge it to push on specific target you can't do the job...)

The main problem for the choppa/slayer is of all these RDPS upgrade. Now the live DPSDEALER are useless on this alpha.
The main problem for choppa/slayer is that they tend to run solo 24/7 and super glass in spite of it.

I don't unterstand how active AoE is even relevant, even the worst of pugs will stop spamming flurry, ID and drop rage before detaunting (so no WS/NE/SL breaking detaunt either) - mind you in 9/10 cases the Slayer/CH will be kd/disarmed anyway.
The only relevant AoE is Onslaught/CH equivalent and ID, which you wouldn't/couldn't use just as liberally as is the case whilst pugfarming.

Furthermore, I don't see as how you would even bother pushing after using detaunt, provided in good play you are being guarded ~ leaving detaunt for guardstrips... dropping rage is pretty much mandatory in such a scenario, too, as has been elaborated throughout the thread. So, letting detaunt drop rage would make little difference, it's merely a QoL change (provided duration/CD stay the same).
You seem to be ignoring the way ID actually works.

Ok you save detuant for "guardstrips". What happens when you use an 8 second ID right before that happens? By the time ID was done the oh **** moment is over.

Furthermore, on a slayer you probably should stop pushing. A maurader on the other hand, doesnt really have to. To me thats the biggest problem. To get even a modicum of survivability on a slayer you have to take yourself put of the fight, to at least some degree. Aside from a m1 of course.

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Darosh
Banned
Posts: 1197

Re: Slayer/Choppa Detaunts [Close Date May 4]

Post#37 » Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:11 am

adamthelc wrote: Mon Apr 23, 2018 2:21 am
Spoiler:
Darosh wrote: Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:17 pm
GROTRUK wrote: Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:05 pm Wowowow !
What the hell are you talkin' about ?

Change the detaunt spells doesn't matter with all those AOE slayer/choppa on the server.
You just need to spec singletarget and do not spam AOE everywhere in the hope of stealing a kill
The most interesting thing is if this detaunt was be undisruptable (because the actual one is always be... even by any career)
And don't turn off rage on it. (don't forget the rage is the must have to deal so if you purge it to push on specific target you can't do the job...)

The main problem for the choppa/slayer is of all these RDPS upgrade. Now the live DPSDEALER are useless on this alpha.
The main problem for choppa/slayer is that they tend to run solo 24/7 and super glass in spite of it.

I don't unterstand how active AoE is even relevant, even the worst of pugs will stop spamming flurry, ID and drop rage before detaunting (so no WS/NE/SL breaking detaunt either) - mind you in 9/10 cases the Slayer/CH will be kd/disarmed anyway.
The only relevant AoE is Onslaught/CH equivalent and ID, which you wouldn't/couldn't use just as liberally as is the case whilst pugfarming.

Furthermore, I don't see as how you would even bother pushing after using detaunt, provided in good play you are being guarded ~ leaving detaunt for guardstrips... dropping rage is pretty much mandatory in such a scenario, too, as has been elaborated throughout the thread. So, letting detaunt drop rage would make little difference, it's merely a QoL change (provided duration/CD stay the same).
You seem to be ignoring the way ID actually works.

Ok you save detuant for "guardstrips". What happens when you use an 8 second ID right before that happens? By the time ID was done the oh **** moment is over.

Furthermore, on a slayer you probably should stop pushing. A maurader on the other hand, doesnt really have to. To me thats the biggest problem. To get even a modicum of survivability on a slayer you have to take yourself put of the fight, to at least some degree. Aside from a m1 of course.
ID lasts between 5s and 8s, and ticks every 2s, guardstrips are usually telegraphed well in advance and can be anticipated (i.e: immunities).

Sure, if you run ST or with a WW-bot you can get multiple IDs up and running, but that's a rare sight (WW-bot needs grouping and a pointy-ear, eww ~ ST needs RR70 and BiS gear to not leave you gimped). Additionally ID ticks can be parried, so you likely don't have 24/7 coverage on applied ID, unless you dump your rage with Rampage.

I don't see as to why a mechanically shallow class should be further gutted in terms of skillfloor/ceiling.
Didn't see that long overdue guardstrip coming and used ID mindlessly on CD? The dirt you'll eat, Mr. Midget.
Mind you it's pointless using ID in CD, if there are seither coordinated staggers ging out or if there is nothing to mask it with ~ cleansed ID = waste of AP.

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adamthelc
Posts: 832

Re: Slayer/Choppa Detaunts [Close Date May 4]

Post#38 » Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:55 am

I think its more about functionality than wanting something dumbed down. I am not a big fan of the removing rage idea, I think thats the exact opposite direction they should take.

Detaunt isnt as good on a slayer as it is on any other mdps, including a Choppa, but I dont have a huge problem with that.

I do think they should be given something that gives them more survivability without sacrificing a huge chunk of output, besides their M1. My idea is more suited to a change in Even the Odds though. Since the topic here is detuant I wont really go into it.

But dont like the idea of dropping rage with detuant. I would rather have the option to drop rage and have to spend the GCD.

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Bozzax
Posts: 2477

Re: Slayer/Choppa Detaunts [Close Date May 4]

Post#39 » Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:10 am

Nvm
A reasonable RvR system that could make the majority happy http://imgur.com/HL6cgl7

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coldnegative
Posts: 31

Re: Slayer/Choppa Detaunts [Close Date May 4]

Post#40 » Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:41 pm

Well. It sounds kinda weird to drop rage by using detaunt ability. I've never thought in that way but I'd like to try this.
But also I have to say detaunt with such option must not be lasting longer than 5 sec.
Still think CH's/SL's detaunt should have lesser cd.
In sum: 5sec active time, 20 sec CD and drop rage. Why not test this?

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