Return of Reckoning

One major frustration for me in MMOs is hard cc - yes it's fun when you use it, but personally there's nothing more frustrating than having zero control over your character while they're bursted to death. Look at SWTOR for how really not to implement hard cc...

Anyway, the main implementation of hard cc for me is where it's used to take out one enemy, ie a healer or dangerous dps, while you kill another target without having to deal with the incoming heals/damage from the other stunned/KD'd player. It shouldn't (imho of course..) be used as a crutch for dps to KD a player and then burst them to death before or 1 gcd after they get up.

What I'd really like to see is all hard cc (stagger, KD) have a 100% chance to break on damage. This would mean people have to be far more tactical with its use, rather than automatically opening with a KD on the target you want to kill, followed by unloading your highest dps abilities into them without any chance of counterplay (punt, detaunt, pot, shield, heal etc).

A stagger/KD would instead be a great tactical tool to take one enemy out of the equation while you kill a team mate, but would also allow you to disengage from a fight and try to flee, or used at range to hunt down fleeing enemy.

Best result of this would be no more watching helplessly as your character is KD'd and then whaled on by the enemy with you unable to respond - its the ultimate frustration for me as it requires zero skill on the attackers part. If you kill someone through their counterplay then you've earned the kill through skill, bludgeoning a helpless target who can't respond requires no skill whatsoever.

If this is difficult to implement without client control can we change KD'd to stagger abilities with the same duration that have 100% chance to break on damage already?

Note this would apply to hard cc, not snares/silence/disarms etc that don't remove all control of your character.

Finally (probably a futile plea...) this is not a class balance suggestion - it would apply equally to both sides and all classes with a KD/stagger. Please let's not turn this into yet another 'nerf X' thread...

it would render bg 5 second kd useless (making snb even less attractive...) as some idiot would always break it.

I do not agree with the idea. It would only work in 6v6, where teams are strict about not hitting certain target. Otherwise, it would be broken by anyone constantly, rendering kd useless.

If you're hard ccd, it's yours team duty to keep you up while it happens. If you do not have a group to do so - find one.

Yes it would require some adjustment to player mentality but that's the whole point - it raises both the skill floor - ie you can't just mindless spam your best AoE skill over and over, and the skill ceiling - skilled players would be able to demonstrate their skill by taking out a key opponent in the same way that the best RP/zealots do currently.

I disagree it would make cc only useful in 6 man, in WB v WB play you would just have to be a bit smarter, and the people that constantly broke cc would have to improve or be kicked from WB.

AxelF wrote:Yes it would require some adjustment to player mentality but that's the whole point - it raises both the skill floor - ie you can't just mindless spam your best AoE skill over and over, and the skill ceiling - skilled players would be able to demonstrate their skill by taking out a key opponent in the same way that the best RP/zealots do currently.

I disagree it would make cc only useful in 6 man, in WB v WB play you would just have to be a bit smarter, and the people that constantly broke cc would have to improve or be kicked from WB.

So you're saying that whole wb will listen to do not aoe for the next 3-5 seconds, and that adds behind that wb will even read spammed chat to not do so?
You're delusional mate. RvR is chaotic, the best tactics are getting often destroyed by other pug players on the field, that might be just spamming buttons while watching Netflix on the side.

I don't see the point. There are cc-immunities in this game, it's not like you can get stunlocked for 30 seconds like in other games.

When i played swtor had no immunities unless lots of cc was chained on you. It was a bad system that could leave you locked out of the fight for way to long.

Druin wrote:I don't see the point. There are cc-immunities in this game, it's not like you can get stunlocked for 30 seconds like in other games.

I'd flip that - what is the benefit to the game of hard cc that doesn't break on damage other than 'every other game has it'? I'm genuinely curious.

Benefits of not having it:

Raises the skill floor for everyone and the skill ceiling for the really good players.

Doesn't provide a crutch for bad dps players to kill someone who can't fight back.

Introduces more tactics into the game other than 'stack more people in this spot' and 'spam your AoE skill as fast as you can'.

Removes the frustration of sitting helplessly watching your char get killed and not able to respond.

This isn't a 'waah I got killed while KD'd' or a 'nerf X' thread, it's a thought as to how we can improved the game generally. Would it actually be bad for the game if KD's were broken by others in big WB v WB fights unless they paid attention?

AxelF wrote:Yes it would require some adjustment to player mentality but that's the whole point - it raises both the skill floor - ie you can't just mindless spam your best AoE skill over and over, and the skill ceiling - skilled players would be able to demonstrate their skill by taking out a key opponent in the same way that the best RP/zealots do currently.

I disagree it would make cc only useful in 6 man, in WB v WB play you would just have to be a bit smarter, and the people that constantly broke cc would have to improve or be kicked from WB.

Because clearly the playerbase is well fit for a change like that, as evidenced by the Lord resets... You might aswell advocate for the removal of CC alltogether.

I agree the WE/WH coffin needs another nail anyway.