[All] Positional Disrupt Strikethrough

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Tesq
Posts: 4526

Re: [All] Positional Disrupt Strikethrough [Close Date TBD]

Post#31 » Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:33 am

what reesh is meant to say is that the inherit resistence of healers vs magic caster gone too far, it had to be fixed but it just gone too far.

DOK/WP are the more advantageous from these changesas high rr allow also some willp additonal stack with out have to mess with tali slots. Especially wp since destru have 2 caster and is due emp absorb tactic pretty much imp to kill if def/supported right.
Last edited by Tesq on Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Flavorburst
Posts: 99

Re: [All] Positional Disrupt Strikethrough [Close Date TBD]

Post#32 » Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:45 am

Tesq wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:33 am
what reesh is meant to say is that the inherit resistence of healers vs magic caster gone too far, i had to be fixed but it just gone too far.

DOK/WP are the more advantageous from these changesas high rr allow also some willp additonal stack with out have to mess with tali slots. Especially wp since destru have 2 caster and is due emp absorb tactic pretty much imp to kill if def/supported right.
Not to veer wildly off topic, but I personally feel that the emp absorb tactic is a wasted slot for WP.

Back on topic: What do you think IS a good rate / return on investment for a stat that is specifically supposed to help mitigate magic damage (on top of increased healing)?

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Crumbs
Posts: 52

Re: [All] Positional Disrupt Strikethrough [Close Date TBD]

Post#33 » Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:55 am

Reesh wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:56 pm
Crumbs wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:44 pm
Only thing I see in the video is you killing that zealot pretty easily.

Rather it shows why the disrupt changes happened in the first place, or you’d get two shot by all the big hitting magic damage dealers. That zealot wouldn’t have been able to walk 3 ft if he wasn’t disrupting as much as he is.

I don’t think a change to disrupt is fair, healers are supposed to be tough for everyone.
Have you noted, that this zealot was 35r and was supposed to be weak when targeted by BiS dps? Additionally, he died only cause he got hit multiple times with unblockable skills and heal debuff luckily landed.
On the other hand, any dps class that isn't a caster would eat him on breakfast in 3gcd (with my slayer in 1 probably).
That heal debuff and your unblockable abilities make up for it well enough. Now say you attack anything other than a healer with ridiculous disrupt valaues, and they’re totally fried.

As a slayer you deal the highest damage in the game, now imagine that slayer getting bombed by a Pro Sorc? He’d need a good guard, good heals, good assists and cc to be able to counter that 1 rdps. That’s why you play BW and not slayer, so you can Heal debuff and dot from a safe distance, be mobile as ****, and do 4K+ 1 sec time stamped burst, with little to no assistance. That zealot wasn’t even surviving off of his own healing, it was multiple healers on him.

If there’s 4 good top rank heals in and sc, it’s very likely you won’t ever kill them, and that’s how it’s supposed to be.
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dansari
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Re: [All] Positional Disrupt Strikethrough [Close Date TBD]

Post#34 » Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:35 am

Flavorburst wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:30 am

Him being 35 doesn't doesn't make him automatically weak since bolster is pretty good about adding a healthy amount of resists/stats/disrupt/etc.
There is no bolster for a rank 35 player.. just puts him up to 40 so the gain is pretty low.
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Crumbs
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Re: [All] Positional Disrupt Strikethrough [Close Date TBD]

Post#35 » Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:52 am

Flavorburst makes a good point with how he says that the zealot is specifically specced for this, which is fair enough, he would get stomped by any melee, that’s the sacrifice he’s willing to make and that’s fair.

I play magus and I rarely ever get a kill on healers from the get go, never will either. Doesn’t mean I don’t pull my weight in killing other valuable targets. Doesn’t mean the game should be changed around so that BWs/Sorcs can **** a healer (and everything else) in one rotation at range with a heal debuff... no, their damage is higher than even melee, and they’re at range... just no, a healer shouldn’t have to deal with that, they spec defensively for that reason.

A healer only heals, you can checkmate an entire group or two if you keep their dps disabled for the duration, enemy healers and tanks are nothing to be feared without dps.
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live4treasure
Posts: 234

Re: [All] Positional Disrupt Strikethrough [Close Date TBD]

Post#36 » Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:19 am

It's ok. It won't make much of a difference, because the usual position of a ranged cast dps is behind melee lines, which means he'll be casting most of his things into somebody's face, rather than their back much more often. To be honest, if there's time to work some of that sweet dev magic in order to make this specific change happen, I think it'd be better spent in simply toning down the disrupt formula, but that's not really for me to decide, of course.

Bottom line is that it's better than nothing, but it's not really that impactful at the end of the day. Also, it's worth mentioning that disrupt isn't as bad as people say it is once a caster gets some strikethrough gear. 3 piece genesis and anni, dominator and/or beastlord usually has some on them, and you can stack up a decent amount that way, and once you do, the changes are only noticable on healers.

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roadkillrobin
Posts: 2517

Re: [All] Positional Disrupt Strikethrough [Close Date TBD]

Post#37 » Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:55 am

Don't really see this make much of a differance. Positioning rdpd vs receiver is front to front in vast majority of equal combat situations. It's just gonna resolve into a "win more" aplication for when someone chasing down fleeing enemies.
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RuffRyder
Posts: 181

Re: [All] Positional Disrupt Strikethrough [Close Date TBD]

Post#38 » Fri Jun 15, 2018 6:52 am

Hi everyone,

basically I like the idea of taking in concern where the attack is coming from even for magical damage, if you imagine that a caster needs to "see" an attack to react/defend properly. Some could argument that a magician just "feels" an incoming attack, but that's argueable and I disagree.

For ST damage I think a strikethrough from side/back is a good solution (like 5-10% more).

For AoE I wouldn't change anything, although the bombing meta kind of bothers me.

For DoTs, if it is technically possible, the strikethrough bonus should only count for the first tick, because after that the target "knows" how to defend.

I know its off topic, but I'm wondering if we would need a discussion for dodge, too, because dodging DoTs isn't realistic this way.
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roadkillrobin
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Re: [All] Positional Disrupt Strikethrough [Close Date TBD]

Post#39 » Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:12 am

RuffRyder wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 6:52 am
Hi everyone,

basically I like the idea of taking in concern where the attack is coming from even for magical damage, if you imagine that a caster needs to "see" an attack to react/defend properly. Some could argument that a magician just "feels" an incoming attack, but that's argueable and I disagree.

For ST damage I think a strikethrough from side/back is a good solution (like 5-10% more).

For AoE I wouldn't change anything, although the bombing meta kind of bothers me.

For DoTs, if it is technically possible, the strikethrough bonus should only count for the first tick, because after that the target "knows" how to defend.

I know its off topic, but I'm wondering if we would need a discussion for dodge, too, because dodging DoTs isn't realistic this way.
If you wanna go into more fluuffy explanations then it's pretty much the same as the force in Star Wars. The receptient can feel the change in the Winds of Magic and therefor deflect it. If it's a magical projectile then a dodge save would be used. The tabletop used to represent both of these, where you could dispell a casted spell (willpower) and use dodge save against projectiles (dodge/armor)
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Koha
Posts: 110

Re: [All] Positional Disrupt Strikethrough [Close Date TBD]

Post#40 » Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:33 pm

live4treasure wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:19 am
It's ok. It won't make much of a difference, because the usual position of a ranged cast dps is behind melee lines, which means he'll be casting most of his things into somebody's face, rather than their back much more often. To be honest, if there's time to work some of that sweet dev magic in order to make this specific change happen, I think it'd be better spent in simply toning down the disrupt formula, but that's not really for me to decide, of course.

Bottom line is that it's better than nothing, but it's not really that impactful at the end of the day. Also, it's worth mentioning that disrupt isn't as bad as people say it is once a caster gets some strikethrough gear. 3 piece genesis and anni, dominator and/or beastlord usually has some on them, and you can stack up a decent amount that way, and once you do, the changes are only noticable on healers.
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