Archtype Morales: Physical Ranged

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lefze
Posts: 803

Re: Archtype Morales: Physical Ranged

Post#11 » Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:09 am

Karast wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:01 am
...
I'm simply saying that your suggestion of making a 1200 damage AoE morale into an archetype morale won't work. Not saying archetype morales can't use some touching up here and there, but the core design needs to remain the same. You simply can't go around giving everyone access to what the game is designed around only being present on certain classes. Hence I said class morales need tweaks aswell, but without deviating too hard from their existing theme.
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Ramasee
Posts: 367

Re: Archtype Morales: Physical Ranged

Post#12 » Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:12 pm

I hear your concerns about 1200 AoE morales for all DPS archtypes at M3 (with difference between how). My challenge to you, Lefze, is come up with something to replace the idea that works and also to replace the existing class ones. As long as a few classes have the AoE damage morales, those are the classes that will be most sought for warband unless they cant bring anything else.

I chose to give them to all DPS archtypes and then give counterplays to them to tank and healer archtypes.
Spreadsheet that has many formulas reduced to easy to use inputs. -- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

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lefze
Posts: 803

Re: Archtype Morales: Physical Ranged

Post#13 » Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:03 pm

Ramasee wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:12 pm
I hear your concerns about 1200 AoE morales for all DPS archtypes at M3 (with difference between how). My challenge to you, Lefze, is come up with something to replace the idea that works and also to replace the existing class ones. As long as a few classes have the AoE damage morales, those are the classes that will be most sought for warband unless they cant bring anything else.

I chose to give them to all DPS archtypes and then give counterplays to them to tank and healer archtypes.
Tweak already existing morales. Make AP morales perform on the level of zealot AP ritual, select morale absorbs absorb moraledamage, select % damage decreasers decrease moraledamage and tweak unique morales like Blinding Light.

I would also lower the damage of all AoE morales to a maximum of 1200 and compensate for lost damage on the speccable M4s with stronger secondary effects, preferably something unique. Most of the existing core 1800 damage morales have some form of usable secondaries, but these could be looked over aswell.

With this approach no one should end up with something that requires their existing morales to be spread out to all other classes or be flat out removed, and instead be the strengths of the classes.

The point here is to not go overboard and make moraledumps be the alpha and omega of largescale, but not make it too ineffective either. For example making morales defendable would be an option, but at that point we are already going too far into one extreme.
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Ramasee
Posts: 367

Re: Archtype Morales: Physical Ranged

Post#14 » Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:38 pm

lefze wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:03 pm
Ramasee wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:12 pm
I hear your concerns about 1200 AoE morales for all DPS archtypes at M3 (with difference between how). My challenge to you, Lefze, is come up with something to replace the idea that works and also to replace the existing class ones. As long as a few classes have the AoE damage morales, those are the classes that will be most sought for warband unless they cant bring anything else.

I chose to give them to all DPS archtypes and then give counterplays to them to tank and healer archtypes.
Tweak already existing morales. Make AP morales perform on the level of zealot AP ritual, select morale absorbs absorb moraledamage, select % damage decreasers decrease moraledamage and tweak unique morales like Blinding Light.

I would also lower the damage of all AoE morales to a maximum of 1200 and compensate for lost damage on the speccable M4s with stronger secondary effects, preferably something unique. Most of the existing core 1800 damage morales have some form of usable secondaries, but these could be looked over aswell.

With this approach no one should end up with something that requires their existing morales to be spread out to all other classes or be flat out removed, and instead be the strengths of the classes.

The point here is to not go overboard and make moraledumps be the alpha and omega of largescale, but not make it too ineffective either. For example making morales defendable would be an option, but at that point we are already going too far into one extreme.
The fact that many current damage morales are instant cast, instant damage keeps morale absorbs and defensives (once changed) from being an effective tool against a dump simply because you have to anticipate a dump an enact beforehand. If you make the durations of the defensives too long, they become too oppressive. So what would you choose to do here? I made all of them time bombs/channels. Some other people suggested cast times and DoTs.
Spreadsheet that has many formulas reduced to easy to use inputs. -- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

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lefze
Posts: 803

Re: Archtype Morales: Physical Ranged

Post#15 » Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:24 pm

Ramasee wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:38 pm
lefze wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:03 pm
Ramasee wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:12 pm
I hear your concerns about 1200 AoE morales for all DPS archtypes at M3 (with difference between how). My challenge to you, Lefze, is come up with something to replace the idea that works and also to replace the existing class ones. As long as a few classes have the AoE damage morales, those are the classes that will be most sought for warband unless they cant bring anything else.

I chose to give them to all DPS archtypes and then give counterplays to them to tank and healer archtypes.
Tweak already existing morales. Make AP morales perform on the level of zealot AP ritual, select morale absorbs absorb moraledamage, select % damage decreasers decrease moraledamage and tweak unique morales like Blinding Light.

I would also lower the damage of all AoE morales to a maximum of 1200 and compensate for lost damage on the speccable M4s with stronger secondary effects, preferably something unique. Most of the existing core 1800 damage morales have some form of usable secondaries, but these could be looked over aswell.

With this approach no one should end up with something that requires their existing morales to be spread out to all other classes or be flat out removed, and instead be the strengths of the classes.

The point here is to not go overboard and make moraledumps be the alpha and omega of largescale, but not make it too ineffective either. For example making morales defendable would be an option, but at that point we are already going too far into one extreme.
The fact that many current damage morales are instant cast, instant damage keeps morale absorbs and defensives (once changed) from being an effective tool against a dump simply because you have to anticipate a dump an enact beforehand. If you make the durations of the defensives too long, they become too oppressive. So what would you choose to do here? I made all of them time bombs/channels. Some other people suggested cast times and DoTs.
I don't see that as an issue, it's an improvement on the current situation anyways. And the durations are just fine, 10-20 seconds possibly x2, how is that not good enough coverage. Could even let the morale reduction stack on these to reward perfect timing.

And there are addons to help with seeing when you are getting moraledumped, the instant ones are of course harder if they are dropped at the exact same time, but that rarely happens with AoE punts and CC in general being spammed like no tomorrow.
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peterthepan3
Balance Moderator
Posts: 5287

Re: Archtype Morales: Physical Ranged

Post#16 » Sun Sep 02, 2018 1:34 pm

Going to close for now. Thanks for all of your contributions.
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