Return of Reckoning

Hello forum,

I keep hearing that BB and BE (i think this is how they are called) are way faster than Crypts and Tunnels.

I have never done city dungeons on destro but I have no problem believing it, since the crypts is very long with its eight(!) bosses if you count the twins as two and necromancer even though he is skippable, and tunnels with it's five if you count Skrot and the Brauk as two.

However since I never did it on destro, I need input from people who have done all four dungeons.

The assumed problem with this situation is that the current influence requires the equal amount of runs (13,5 iirc) runs on both sides and this is not right if one is way more time-consuming than the other.

If reducing the numbers of runs required for Crypts and Tunnels makes sense, it is an easy job of adding influence reward on some of the bosses that currently give none. (Spider, necromancer, Witch hunter, Wraith and Tobias for Crypts and the mini bosses from Tunnels.)

And if there is a similar amount of mobs and bosses, there could be something else like the many bosses and mobs who have heal for example, or mechanics that makes it impossible to kill fast(like twins with their anti melee aura and they autoheal if dmg difference is too great forces you to hit both with aoe and slowly widdle em down). I don't really know, so this is why I want you to discuss.


Please share your experience and thoughts on this !

If you have a good group on destro, you should be able to breeze through both within an hour

I haven’t got my IB warded so I can’t experience Order city Fungeons.
Bilerot is pretty obnoxious to be fair. It’s literally “NO AP ALLOWED: The Dungeon”. How bad are the order city dungeons?

BB/BWE are a nice and quick dungeon experience: you can get both of them done within the hour/just over.

I've heard that the Order Sentinel dungeons are akin to doing another wing or two of Gunbad, so for that reason - I'm out.

DokB wrote: Tue May 28, 2019 12:21 am I haven’t got my IB warded so I can’t experience Order city Fungeons.
Bilerot is pretty obnoxious to be fair. It’s literally “NO AP ALLOWED: The Dungeon”. How bad are the order city dungeons?

Same thing, both WBT are terrible on ap and parts of crypts are as well.

@OP BE/BB is run by a good group in 40-45 minutes on average (from what I’ve been told, so for non-optimized decent groups that’s probably 55 minutes?). My guild groups run Crypts/WBT in 70 minutes. This is with a very unoptimized group (though lowest RR is like 74 so well geared) and have never had s flawless run (pull extra **** or tank brain farts on a boss pull) so you could probably hit sub 60 minutes with a great and optimized group. At the end of the day a 15-20 minute difference isn’t a big deal at all; sure destro is saving like 2 hours total but comparatively it isn’t a ton of time.

My average order run was an hour and a half.
Destro is doable in less than an hour.
Destro dungeons are also more enjoyable. Boss mechanics look more reasonable and don’t twist your tentacles with some insane stuns in the puddles or AP drains and crazy damage debuffs.

Have run dozens of Destro dungeons, with average setup it is 65-70 mins expected, with minmaxed setup of veteran pvegrinders, can push below 60, to 55-50.
On Order haven't had a perfect run so far (maybe 8-10 runs in total), always some wipe somewhere, which can be attritubed to not having a veteran pvegrind group, and somewhat general lack of "wat am i doing" attitude from many order players in pve. So runs can take 80-120 mins, with few wipes, ppl getting lost, someone afking behind, etc.
But when you count actual mob clearing times, they are about equal. When you count time spent on boss fights without wipes, times also become quite equal.
One of these days I'll find a good Order group, that actually manages a 60-70 min run... I wish...
30 min in Crypts without wipes is realistic, same with >15min in each of Warp tunnels.

Assuming both sides bring good classes, don't bring classes that lack AoE and don't bring pet classes, and have good tank aggro holding and healers using Cleanse and antiAggro, both sides are very much capable of 60-70 min city dungeon runs.

It's only your own fault if the AM insists they don't need Sublety or you really insist on bringing a WL or Engi with you into pve content where mechanics exist that cause pets to melt and not have access to incoming group heals.

From my PoV which is only based on Order and only based on running on my Engineer, since it's the only toon I have Redeye on, I can say that compared to running Gunbad Crypts & Tunnels are way faster, due to not having PQs and way less waytime and mobs to grind through.

Both Crypts & Tunnels can be done "around" an hour each (I didn't count it actually) and considering class composition you can bring anything as long as the tank part is experienced enough and everyone watches their aggro.
Engineer is actually a very good choice for the AoE you need and for the boss mechanics as RDPS. I ran together with Slayer (also perfect for it), WL and WH and we did fine.

Besides we had a full Crypt run with only 1 tank (SM) and didn't struggle even with Lector Twins, most things rely on tank play.

It's not like all runs were that easy but bottom line if ppl know the mechanics, how to position and when to use their aggro handling and morales it's totally fine, but from what ppl wrote about the time you need on Destruction I can say on Ordes it seems to be rather longer than this.