Population is starting to drop.

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Bozzax
Posts: 1998

Re: Population is starting to drop.

Post#71 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:21 pm

City siege and a new X month gear grind will surly bring ppl bck that though fort grind was amazing
A reasonable RvR system that could make the majority happy http://imgur.com/HL6cgl7

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Darks63
Posts: 476

Re: Population is starting to drop.

Post#72 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:17 pm

Bozzax wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:21 pm
City siege and a new X month gear grind will surly bring ppl bck that though fort grind was amazing
It will bring the gear chasers back for a time but they will quit again once they have their stuff.
Tourist SW 40/50+<Zaxxed> Discotec 40/40+<IRONIC>

Former Pragg/Badlands Destro Iron Rock/Badlands Order player.

dirnsterer
Posts: 106

Re: Population is starting to drop.

Post#73 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:56 pm

Yaliskah wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:16 pm
Just my 2 cents about "grind". I fear and your memories are failing or obscured.

Where were you during the beloved Official time?

I was in.

I remember clearly doing TOVL atleast 2xWEEK (and you have no idea how i hated it) on different characters to complete RANDOMLY my set for MONTHS, for me and my buddies. Oh, wait, yes, Everyone was doing it because guess what? It was one of the best set of the game. > PVE
Yeah but you had multiple angles to reach those points though. Like I do recall Mt Gunbad and Bastion Stair as huge waste of time when city dungeons, lv and tovl were the dungeons you ran. And to those all you could progress through rvr. Here you have to do this ward progression pve madness which is just baffling.

Dabbart
Posts: 1949

Re: Population is starting to drop.

Post#74 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:58 pm

Spoiler:
dirnsterer wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:56 pm
Yaliskah wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:16 pm
Just my 2 cents about "grind". I fear and your memories are failing or obscured.

Where were you during the beloved Official time?

I was in.

I remember clearly doing TOVL atleast 2xWEEK (and you have no idea how i hated it) on different characters to complete RANDOMLY my set for MONTHS, for me and my buddies. Oh, wait, yes, Everyone was doing it because guess what? It was one of the best set of the game. > PVE
Yeah but you had multiple angles to reach those points though. Like I do recall Mt Gunbad and Bastion Stair as huge waste of time when city dungeons, lv and tovl were the dungeons you ran. And to those all you could progress through rvr. Here you have to do this ward progression pve madness which is just baffling.
I mean... Wards wont unlock to PvP gear eventually similar to how they did on Live. They want players to play and test the changes they are making, not just skip them. They also want to incentivise players to run these dungeons even if high RRd already, because not everyone is! If gunbad could be skipped via PvP wards, then it would be even harder to find a group to do it than it currently is. Note, this was confirmed by Grunbag Here

Not that baffling. Not ideal for players that want to skip ahead and just get the gear THEY want. But it shouldn't be baffling...

Note: I don't actually agree with it, i think you can incentivise other ways, but not my call. Same with Power leveling, Devs wanted it out, so it's out and we adapt.

Edit: or are you talking about Wards in general? Cause that was the basis for a lot of gear progression on Live. But each one also had multiple ways to unlock it(including by achieving a Higher ward...)

Edit2: Also.. I am super confused. If Vanilla is an "issue" for drawing players away. Then how can PvE also be an issue? How can the tiny grind in RoR(when compared to the 3+hrs per lvl on Vanilla) be an issue? How can Dungeon runs and group Raids be an issue being "forced" be an issue at the same time as Vanilla? I think many are just used to running behind a Zerg and collecting free st00fs and call it PvP.
Last edited by Dabbart on Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.

BeautfulToad
Posts: 320

Re: Population is starting to drop.

Post#75 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:06 pm

I am not sure why there is so much rage directed at pve dungeons. If the argument is that the devs wasted their time reproducing that content, why does it matter now? Is it just a matter of tweaking loot drops, so you only need to do them 1-2 times less to get the set? The sets are okay, but most of my toons don't need them.

I am not sure what the SCs stuff means either, they have not really changed very much, I dont really understand the domination timer but it's hardly getting in the way of doing SCs.
Last edited by BeautfulToad on Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Grunbag
Project Team
Posts: 1641

Re: Population is starting to drop.

Post#76 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:10 pm

I recall also getting the PvE gear set was a pain because you were not guaranteed to have full set after 4 runs neither guaranteed to drop for the class present .
Maybe current way is not the best , maybe we will adjust it with time , but actually it’s faster to get full pve set than it was on live .
Grunbag - 40 - 33 Squig Herder
Skorri - 40 - 65 Engineer

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Olszewski
Posts: 267

Re: Population is starting to drop.

Post#77 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:19 pm

There are still other things mentioned here for reasons why server has low population and continues to drop.
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Detangler
Posts: 121

Re: Population is starting to drop.

Post#78 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:45 pm

Manatikik wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:00 pm
Detangler wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:03 pm
This game is far less grindy than people claim. I got a full time job, 3 kids, and 1 needy wife, started brand new December last year and I've got 3 40s and 2 mid 30s. I still have fun and feel competitive enough in orvr and I don't touch pve dungeons.

Those complaining about nothing to do in forts cause you cant go there - theres always fights near the portal. And good RR too. Small rvr can give great rewards for a few kills.

Theres still plenty to do with low population and the underpopulated side. Less people means smaller numbers to go up against when they run supplies. Use good communication and advertise in /5 and people will come join you.
Well let me break down some of the grind for you (note that a lot of it isn’t actual hours put into the game but time restrictions to gate progression):

-Gunbad can require 3 runs // A good group can clear the whole dungeon in 2 hours but most pug groups take closer to 4.5-5 hours // 3 day lock out (though you can kind of skip this one and just get kill credit but sometimes hard to get a group to take you due to bugs)

-City Dungeons: requires 4 runs for the wards but 13 for jewel // runs take good groups 50 minutes on destro and 60 minutes on order (group comp varies time more on this one) but pugs take like 90-120 minutes on destro and 120-150 minutes on order (again comps matter) // 4 day lock out on this with a 7 day lock out on talisman

-Bastion Stair: requires 4 runs for wards but 8 for cloak // good groups can do it in 90-120 minutes but pugs often take 4+ hours (depends on comp and experience) // 4 day lockout with 7 day lock out on talisman

That means if you just want to wear full Bloodlord (or any decent mix with cloak) it will take you minimum of 32 days to get this set and about 52 hours of Pug PvE content. To get the sentinel jewel it will take 52 days and about 70 hours of PvE PLUS and additional 2 hours every week to keep the talisman up (or the equivalent in BS).

Fortresses take about 2-3 hours in the zone before and usually about 2 hours to take. This means you have to have a commitment to 5 hours per fort (unless in off hours). It takes 55 forts without any winner/bags to get full Invader (and before you did not get 6 for winning and had issues; like on my SW it took me close to 70 forts just due to server issues at the time and random contribution). A big issue with forts is that, unlike regular RvR sets, SC, and PvE sets, you cannot control when you participate in this content so it may take you 6 months to get what takes someone else a few weeks just due to circumstance. Also, Fortress gameplay is pretty boring/unfun compared to most other facets of the game just due to design. We’ll have to see how Cities differ or if they are the same in these drawbacks.


So, this is what people mean by ‘long grind’ it’s not so much raw hours but more the time-gates in place to make gearing up even one toon to full BiS pretty big chore (especially for a dead game on a private server). If you have been active as new content releases, have a decent guild/group, and only focus on one character then the grind isn’t so bad - but as soon as you take a break, lose some of your group/guild to all the aforementioned reasons in this thread, or want to focus on a couple of toons then the time sink requires (again not even raw hours played just the physical limitations) becomes pretty overwhelming.
I've attempted gun bad and BS all of 1 time each. Ever. Never done the sewers. PvE is a snooze fest. Most times I play (only 2-3 times a week max usually) only have 1/2 hour to 2 hours max to play cause of RL getting in the way. Zealot and Chosen both in full Vanq, subjugator weapons, f probably 80ish invader tokens each. I am the definition of casual. I don't feel undergeared in the slightest. I still have fun duking it out with Order each night I play.
Detangler - 40 DoK armor talisman farmer
Deetangler - 40/6x Chosen tankbot
Deeetangler - 40/6x Zealot healbot

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Manatikik
Posts: 808

Re: Population is starting to drop.

Post#79 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:58 pm

Detangler wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:45 pm
Manatikik wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:00 pm
Detangler wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:03 pm
This game is far less grindy than people claim. I got a full time job, 3 kids, and 1 needy wife, started brand new December last year and I've got 3 40s and 2 mid 30s. I still have fun and feel competitive enough in orvr and I don't touch pve dungeons.

Those complaining about nothing to do in forts cause you cant go there - theres always fights near the portal. And good RR too. Small rvr can give great rewards for a few kills.

Theres still plenty to do with low population and the underpopulated side. Less people means smaller numbers to go up against when they run supplies. Use good communication and advertise in /5 and people will come join you.
Well let me break down some of the grind for you (note that a lot of it isn’t actual hours put into the game but time restrictions to gate progression):

-Gunbad can require 3 runs // A good group can clear the whole dungeon in 2 hours but most pug groups take closer to 4.5-5 hours // 3 day lock out (though you can kind of skip this one and just get kill credit but sometimes hard to get a group to take you due to bugs)

-City Dungeons: requires 4 runs for the wards but 13 for jewel // runs take good groups 50 minutes on destro and 60 minutes on order (group comp varies time more on this one) but pugs take like 90-120 minutes on destro and 120-150 minutes on order (again comps matter) // 4 day lock out on this with a 7 day lock out on talisman

-Bastion Stair: requires 4 runs for wards but 8 for cloak // good groups can do it in 90-120 minutes but pugs often take 4+ hours (depends on comp and experience) // 4 day lockout with 7 day lock out on talisman

That means if you just want to wear full Bloodlord (or any decent mix with cloak) it will take you minimum of 32 days to get this set and about 52 hours of Pug PvE content. To get the sentinel jewel it will take 52 days and about 70 hours of PvE PLUS and additional 2 hours every week to keep the talisman up (or the equivalent in BS).

Fortresses take about 2-3 hours in the zone before and usually about 2 hours to take. This means you have to have a commitment to 5 hours per fort (unless in off hours). It takes 55 forts without any winner/bags to get full Invader (and before you did not get 6 for winning and had issues; like on my SW it took me close to 70 forts just due to server issues at the time and random contribution). A big issue with forts is that, unlike regular RvR sets, SC, and PvE sets, you cannot control when you participate in this content so it may take you 6 months to get what takes someone else a few weeks just due to circumstance. Also, Fortress gameplay is pretty boring/unfun compared to most other facets of the game just due to design. We’ll have to see how Cities differ or if they are the same in these drawbacks.


So, this is what people mean by ‘long grind’ it’s not so much raw hours but more the time-gates in place to make gearing up even one toon to full BiS pretty big chore (especially for a dead game on a private server). If you have been active as new content releases, have a decent guild/group, and only focus on one character then the grind isn’t so bad - but as soon as you take a break, lose some of your group/guild to all the aforementioned reasons in this thread, or want to focus on a couple of toons then the time sink requires (again not even raw hours played just the physical limitations) becomes pretty overwhelming.
I've attempted gun bad and BS all of 1 time each. Ever. Never done the sewers. PvE is a snooze fest. Most times I play (only 2-3 times a week max usually) only have 1/2 hour to 2 hours max to play cause of RL getting in the way. Zealot and Chosen both in full Vanq, subjugator weapons, f probably 80ish invader tokens each. I am the definition of casual. I don't feel undergeared in the slightest. I still have fun duking it out with Order each night I play.
Not to sound rude but the 'definition of a casual' feeling geared out is not at all the same thing as being actually geared out.
<Montague><Capulet>

Dabbart
Posts: 1949

Re: Population is starting to drop.

Post#80 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:04 pm

Spoiler:
Detangler wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:45 pm

I've attempted gun bad and BS all of 1 time each. Ever. Never done the sewers. PvE is a snooze fest. Most times I play (only 2-3 times a week max usually) only have 1/2 hour to 2 hours max to play cause of RL getting in the way. Zealot and Chosen both in full Vanq, subjugator weapons, f probably 80ish invader tokens each. I am the definition of casual. I don't feel undergeared in the slightest. I still have fun duking it out with Order each night I play.
Just for shits and giggles... What do you mean by Snooze Fest? I get you found it boring. But why? Did you feel like the bosses were just Tank and Spank? Did the group clear the Dungeon to quickly or easily? Do you have any experience with other MMOs? If so, did they have more "fun" PvE? And why? If you could wave a magic wand, what would you do to make the Dungeons more "fun"? You said that you have a few 40's and a couple 20-30's, would you find Gunbad a more "fun" way to lvl up from 31-40 than SCs/ORvR during the gear/bolster issues that those lvls deal with? Please note, I know SCs are probably faster, and I know for a fact Mob-grinding is faster, but that's not the point and no one ever has claimed that Mob-grinding is "fun".

Note: this isn't intended flippantly. You've run these dungeons, you joined the server within the last year, and have multiple toons capped with a few other lowbies. You're technically very well seated to give actual feedback. But just saying it's a snooze fest doesn't really help.

Edit: However this isn't a Dungeon Feedback post though... But I can't remember the last thread that didn't go off the rails into a new continent so...

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