Recent Topics

Ads

Are WL feedback threads being deleted by Mods?

Let's talk about... everything else

Moderators: Developer, Management, Web Developer

agemennon675
Posts: 167

Re: Are WL feedback threads being deleted by Mods?

Post#31 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:47 pm

Reading about comments yeah lets make SH very good at aoe very good at utility very good at ST in the same spec too now ? So how about the other dps classes that doesnt even have a single viable spec ?

Ads
sogeou
Posts: 256

Re: Are WL feedback threads being deleted by Mods?

Post#32 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:53 pm

Valarion wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:42 pm
All you need to do to make mSH viable is to grant them a stronger debuff and increase ST burst to match WL. Unless Im mistaken, thats literally it. My bias is small scale 6man, so perhaps thats clouding my perception of the class.
Their damage is perfectly fine. The issues they have is lack of a speed tactic and pet only have 4k wounds. Even if the pet was given more wounds, they still have the same problem that WL's have and is you just kill the pet.

Problem is SH's would not use the WL's speed tactic as they want leet dps instead of having a pet there when you need it.

raistomen
Posts: 92

Re: Are WL feedback threads being deleted by Mods?

Post#33 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:18 pm

all you need to know about WL is in the data , just look at city damage

raistomen
Posts: 92

Re: Are WL feedback threads being deleted by Mods?

Post#34 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:19 pm

Valarion wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:16 pm
Illuminati wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:42 pm
Are WLs being reviewed for balance adjustments? that may put an end to the constant feedback from players about the class.
The devs have already made this clear: there is not going to be any adjustment to WLs whatsoever.. To continue to ask is just going to anger Sigmar. I once had a in game conversation with a dev I will not name about toning down the damage on my WL and lets just say it didnt go well. The devs are fully aware that the highest mobility class in the game also has the highest burst potential and they are fine with it.

So I humbly and respectfully ask you adapt your gameplay around this fact or you are just going to rage vent. The devs are at least open to alternatives, just not with WL for some reason (at least not with the devs I spoke to).

My best advice to Destro would be to ask for significant buffs to mdps SH making them at least equally viable and feared in small group. The devs are rational and open you just need to approach them with good ideas that have NOTHING to do with WLs right now.
WL are feared solo, small group, and cities.

I suppose the only place they don't shine is dpsing oil, but even then their pets do pretty darn good

thedonkeykong332
Suspended
Posts: 170

Re: Are WL feedback threads being deleted by Mods?

Post#35 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:29 pm

sogeou wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:53 pm
Valarion wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:42 pm
All you need to do to make mSH viable is to grant them a stronger debuff and increase ST burst to match WL. Unless Im mistaken, thats literally it. My bias is small scale 6man, so perhaps thats clouding my perception of the class.
Their damage is perfectly fine. The issues they have is lack of a speed tactic and pet only have 4k wounds. Even if the pet was given more wounds, they still have the same problem that WL's have and is you just kill the pet.

Problem is SH's would not use the WL's speed tactic as they want leet dps instead of having a pet there when you need it.
m1 root should be removed from WL first of all.
Therefore a WL player will need to choose, does he want to catch people and burst them down or join WB and be aoe? and not dance in both of the worlds that is balance, all classes have this choice why should WL dance everywhere?

2nd of all some1 mentinoed root might get nerfed 30 range feet, this should only affect at least WL and not mara, mara doesn't have same utility and WL does u want to balance, only WL should get this nerf but I think it should be removed completely.

then I would remove WL's damage by 10% at least, and then I think it would be balanced, if u don't remove WL's damage something else must be added whether to MSH damage and no it's not fine only aoe is fine, or to mara or both of them together to as a counterpart to WL.

Foofmonger
Posts: 517

Re: Are WL feedback threads being deleted by Mods?

Post#36 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:32 pm

Valarion wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:42 pm
Foofmonger wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:25 pm
If that's the case, then as I tried to illustrate in the above post, that makes "the WL a model DPS" that the game should be tuned around.

I have plenty of ideas on this subject if this is the philosophical position that the devs take.

Significant buffs to mdps SH is an option, but would require a lot of work. Alternatively, we could look towards boosting the Marauders mobility (and/or Destros overall mobility), as they already have similar (but lower) ST burst to a WL, which would require much less work and bring parity to the 4 way mirror of SW/SH/WL/Mara, instead of overstacking on the SH, making it an aoe/st beast, and leaving the Mara as the only class in the 4 way mirror that doesn't get a pounce or teleport ability. Also, shadow step was added into the game with no parity counterpart for destro, which directly leads to the order mobility advantage cited in some other threads (one by you I believe recently).

Another option that matters (but less so) is looking at Wings of Heaven parity (or similar) for a destro tank class. Now, I guess it would be hard to do from a lore perspective, but I'm sure you can finagle some way of making a BO "run real fast" or something, or a Chosem using a "Tzeentch Warp" or some creative nonsense.

All you need to do to make mSH viable is to grant them a stronger debuff and increase ST burst to match WL. Unless Im mistaken, thats literally it. My bias is small scale 6man, so perhaps thats clouding my perception of the class.
That's more or less it, but the alternative is also true is my point, that you could just boost the Marauder's mobility, giving more parity to the sides but achieving more parity within the 4 way mirror. They could also just go and make mSH a ST burst monster class, your comment is perfectly valid.

I personally think that the issue is a mobility issue, and instead of just forcing destro to put all of their eggs in 1 basket (the msh), giving parity to the mirror and a teleport for 4/4 classes instead of 3/4 classes makes more sense. This gives both factions the options to run 2 different dps classes that have the teleports, whose overall functionality is spread/distributed non-1-1 mirrorly over the different classes. Plus, if you buff the mSH damage to WL levels you open up further issues with "why would anyone play a choppa and/or a marauder", pigeonholing destro further. In 6v6 terms, neither SH, Choppa, or Mara are currently great picks, and maybe the answer is "both" where the SH needs better burst and the Mara needs more mobility, it's entirely possible.

This all being said, one of the ways that the 4 way mirror is currently balanced is in asymmetrical ST/AoE dps distribution. If you look at destro, you have 2 viable AoE specs (mSH and Mara), versus 1 vialbe AoE spec for order (WL), on the flipside, you have 2 viable ST burst specs for order w/mobility (WL and ASW), and you have 0 viable ST burst specs for destro w/mobility (because msH has no viable burst spec and the Mara has no mobility skill). So either way, giving destro 1 viable ST burst spec is a minimum to achieve parity, and it could be either the msh or the mara.

Now if you wanted to achieve "full parity" which is probably not necessary/excessive, you could just give all 4 of these classes viable aoe and mobile st burst specs. You'd have to give the Mara mobility, the mSH burst, and the ASW AoE. It should be noted however, that asking for "well msh or mara can get buffs if ASW gets AoE" misses the point of this post, as the current issue is an issue due to lack of parity and tit for tatting on the subject doesn't solve anything until the baseline has been re-established.
Last edited by Foofmonger on Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Valarion
Posts: 296

Re: Are WL feedback threads being deleted by Mods?

Post#37 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:39 pm

sogeou wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:53 pm
Valarion wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:42 pm
All you need to do to make mSH viable is to grant them a stronger debuff and increase ST burst to match WL. Unless Im mistaken, thats literally it. My bias is small scale 6man, so perhaps thats clouding my perception of the class.
Their damage is perfectly fine. The issues they have is lack of a speed tactic and pet only have 4k wounds. Even if the pet was given more wounds, they still have the same problem that WL's have and is you just kill the pet.

Problem is SH's would not use the WL's speed tactic as they want leet dps instead of having a pet there when you need it.

Their sustained dps or aoe may be fine, but their ST burst is not fine. At least not in the same category as other dps.
Image
40s: WP/Dok AM/Shaman RP/Zeal Knight/Chosen SM/BO BW/Sorc WL & Eng

User avatar
Ramlaen
Posts: 92

Re: Are WL feedback threads being deleted by Mods?

Post#38 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:53 pm

Valarion wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:16 pm
Illuminati wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:42 pm
Are WLs being reviewed for balance adjustments? that may put an end to the constant feedback from players about the class.
The devs have already made this clear: there is not going to be any adjustment to WLs whatsoever.. To continue to ask is just going to anger Sigmar. I once had a in game conversation with a dev I will not name about toning down the damage on my WL and lets just say it didnt go well. The devs are fully aware that the highest mobility class in the game also has the highest burst potential and they are fine with it.

So I humbly and respectfully ask you adapt your gameplay around this fact or you are just going to rage vent. The devs are at least open to alternatives, just not with WL for some reason (at least not with the devs I spoke to).

My best advice to Destro would be to ask for significant buffs to mdps SH making them at least equally viable and feared in small group. The devs are rational and open you just need to approach them with good ideas that have NOTHING to do with WLs right now.
He unironically asks for mSH to get buffs...
Ramlaen, Longhaul, Wolfnrock, Grashop

Ads
sogeou
Posts: 256

Re: Are WL feedback threads being deleted by Mods?

Post#39 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:56 pm

Valarion wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:39 pm


Their sustained dps or aoe may be fine, but their ST burst is not fine. At least not in the same category as other dps.
How about you give me numbers from a pet spec'ed mSH with not good single target damage. But, I have run DPS test before and their single target is like 90% of what WL's have.

Foofmonger
Posts: 517

Re: Are WL feedback threads being deleted by Mods?

Post#40 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:58 pm

sogeou wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:56 pm
Valarion wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:39 pm


Their sustained dps or aoe may be fine, but their ST burst is not fine. At least not in the same category as other dps.
How about you give me numbers from a pet spec'ed mSH with not good single target damage. But, I have run DPS test before and their single target is like 90% of what WL's have.
ST sustained and ST burst are not the same, did you check burst or just sustained dps? You didn't specify either so asking for clarity.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 20 guests