IB mechanic suggestion

[Battlefield]

Blackguard gets the Hatred when attacking an enemy on a hit, but Ironbreaker needs a tactic for this or without IB does not get the Grudge when hitting an enemy. Don't you think it's unfair ?
If going this way, IB has 3 tactics slots but BG has 4!

Then, Knockback ability for Blackguard costs 30 action points is Exile but for Ironbreaker costs
25 Grudge is Away with Ye, it means IB uses it more rarely than BG and besides Exile is stronger !
As well absorb ability for BG costs 15 Hatred but for IB costs 30 Grudge...

[anarchypark]

Oath Friend vs Dark Protector.
10-5-3 vs flat 5

basic mechanic,
being hit 5 + oath friend 5
vs
being hit 5 + attack 5 , self.

Tactics,
IB 5 attack, 30 parry 3s ICD.
BG 10 crit, 10 being crit, 5 less spend.

seems balanced.
with good OF, i would say IB is better to build mechanic.

[Battlefield]

Oath Friend vs Dark Protector.
10-5-3 vs flat 5

basic mechanic,
being hit 5 + oath friend 5
vs
being hit 5 + attack 5 , self.

Tactics,
IB 5 attack, 30 parry 3s ICD.
BG 10 crit, 10 being crit, 5 less spend.

seems balanced.
with good OF, i would say IB is better to build mechanic.

Facepalm, Dark Potector too gives 5 Hatred and IB has too many other great tactics instead !
As well i did not say about absorb, cost 30 Grudge against 15 Hatred. I guess most of BGs also does not use Hatred tactics for pvp, if only for pve, anyway I would do it so.

[Farrul]

Well this is the main reason BG feels a lot better to play outside of huge zerg fights.

Certain IB abilities scales a bit better at high grudge levels but it does not balance-wise justify the enormous difference in resource gains. IB spends a lot of grudge using punt(25! vs BG 30 action points) and oath buffs every 10 seconds.

That's why either resource gain (make Rising Anger core, remove tactic) or buffed duration (15 second) oath buffs is the reasonable balance change. Some guy did an entire ''essay'' on the IB forums with mathematical precision proving the ''time resource '' issue with the Ironbreaker class, if that doesn't help nothing will unfortunately (feels like beating a dead horse at this point).

Oath Friend vs Dark Protector.
10-5-3 vs flat 5

basic mechanic,
being hit 5 + oath friend 5
vs
being hit 5 + attack 5 , self.

Tactics,
IB 5 attack, 30 parry 3s ICD.
BG 10 crit, 10 being crit, 5 less spend.

seems balanced.
with good OF, i would say IB is better to build mechanic.

Dark protector is better as the negative effect of Oath Friend kicks in for the longer period (60-100) while the positive effect is only between 0-29. The constant 5 is on average more resources throughout a fight. But the difference between Oath friend and Dark protector is negligible.

What makes it unbalanced is Enraged Beating, this will quickly build BG resources but more importantly it ensures BG can stay and maintain high resources, IB on the other hand has to waste a tactic to have any form of reliable gain outside of zerg fights and it's obviously still much slower than BG gains ( Dont think i've ever seen an IB take the ripose grudge tactic, not needed in large scale and unreliable in small scale, wasting 1 tactic slot for Rising Anger is bad enough). +5 on hit BG is just the cherry on top.

To somewhat balance this Rising Anger need to be core, tactic removed. IB would still gain at a slower pace but that's fine considering IB scales a little bit better at high grudge levels and BG spends a bit more hate. Currently though the difference is ridiculous to put it gently.

[Battlefield]

Basic mechanic:

IB being hit 5 + oath friend 5
vs
BG being hit 5 + attack 5 + dark protector 5

seems not balanced.

[Farrul]

Basic mechanic:

IB being hit 5 + oath friend 5
vs
BG being hit 5 + attack 5 + dark protector 5

seems not balanced.

I'd argue it is balanced if you take into consideration the information in my last post (scaling, resources spent). The unbalanced part is the easy access channel attack BG get low in the tree +10 per crit/6. This is not against the BG that feels great to play, it's just that IB has been left in the dust. A clear imbalance.

[mubbl]

What about the other goodies ib get and bg dont?
Dont you think infinite ap would be a bit strong?
Which leads to the nxt point of better grp utility of ib.
Also there is this meme punt of ib which has 10 sec cd with shield.
In additions ib has these laughable skill trees, where you nearly never have to go higher then 11 points, so you can grab nearly all of your goodies.
Im also pretty sure bg needs his resources to be tanky and ib not so much. This maybe connected to the fact that bg needs to decides if 2h or snb.

[Battlefield]

Basic mechanic:

IB being hit 5 + oath friend 5
vs
BG being hit 5 + attack 5 + dark protector 5

seems not balanced.

I'd argue it is balanced if you take into consideration the information in my last post (scaling, resources spent). The unbalanced part is the easy access channel attack BG get low in the tree +10 per crit/6. This is not against the BG that feels great to play, it's just that IB has been left in the dust. A clear imbalance.

Yeah, also BG can gets the Hatred when using Enraged Beating channel attack and it does not require Great Weapon as IB has, so BG may use it with a shield, it costs 5 points in the Path of Malice...

[Battlefield]

What about the other goodies ib get and bg dont?
Dont you think infinite ap would be a bit strong?
Which leads to the nxt point of better grp utility of ib.
Also there is this meme punt of ib which has 10 sec cd with shield.
In additions ib has these laughable skill trees, where you nearly never have to go higher then 11 points, so you can grab nearly all of your goodies.
Im also pretty sure bg needs his resources to be tanky and ib not so much. This maybe connected to the fact that bg needs to decides if 2h or snb.

Topic about mechanic of IB/BG, Grudge/Hatred !!! AP ability is the same they have.
Punt requires 25 Grudge and this is too high price, anyway if you wish to increase cooldown,
so do it but reduce the cost !

[Farrul]

What about the other goodies ib get and bg dont?
Dont you think infinite ap would be a bit strong?

I don't know , what are you referring to other than Told Ya SO? ''Infinitive ap'' (Told Ya So) is already a thing regardless. I do not think Told Ya So is too strong considering what other classes get, such as BG Crimson Death, wounds debuff etc.

Also there is this meme punt of ib which has 10 sec cd with shield.
In additions ib has these laughable skill trees, where you nearly never have to go higher then 11 points, so you can grab nearly all of your goodies.
Im also pretty sure bg needs his resources to be tanky and ib not so much. This maybe connected to the fact that bg needs to decides if 2h or snb.

IB punt has 10 sec cd/ costs 25(!) grudge. BG 20 sec cd Super punt( i.e much stronger effect) that costs only 30 ap.

12 points is high up in the tree lol, but if the IB wants Grumble and Mutter/ Oathstone / Grudge Born Fury / 14 point investment is required.

I can assure you the IB needs ''his resources'' to function, not sure exactly what you're referring to.