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EXPERIMENTAL force dx 11.0

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Tesq
Posts: 5704

Re: EXPERIMENTAL force dx 11.0

Post#11 » Thu Apr 07, 2022 9:37 pm

unfairway2003 wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 7:55 pm
Spoiler:
I used with Win10 on 1050 ti, had to used the Win7-9 file because the Win10 file didnt work, and when I started the game I noticed it disabled the ability to max GPU on settings:
Image
Tried around with setting to 11_0, 11_1, and 12_1, kept noticing that random faces of some players would look like this and it took a little bit of time for game to automatically load their faces properly again:
Image
Ty but since I cant max my GPU cache in settings with this I'll have to stick with DXVK 10.1, which btw, 10.0 was causing my head to disappear, 1.7.3 was causing a crash after SC's ended, and 1.8 was causing map colors to mess up. @Tesq did it disable ability to max GPU in settings with your graphics card?
toogle show frame (both on windowed or fullscreen), warhammer have this gpu bug that can go either way, if you have or not show frame (depend from gpu sotware to gpu software) it will disable overclock (my case) or the gpu texture(like you and another one persone case), i guess swap directx trigged it.
My suggestion is try from dx 11 till 12.1 fullscreen and with show frame enable (and in gpu put alternative v sinc or a v sync)
Ankward that the win 10 version dont work... ah btw did you tried force warp setting that is a dx12 feature)?
NB: the face thing could be new cache for dx12 being saved into gpu folder, should try log same zone over and over and see if persist or go away.

If you add me on disc i can try help ya
Last edited by Tesq on Fri Apr 08, 2022 11:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Secrets
Former Staff
Posts: 414

Re: EXPERIMENTAL force dx 11.0

Post#12 » Fri Apr 08, 2022 12:36 am

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the only reason this remotely works is because it might (and I say /might/) limit the feature level reported by the GPU to the application, and the game is likely hitting its low spec PC performance flag (which may trigger on some laptops, for instance) and that is the primary reason for your 'bump' in performance.

This will NOT force the game to use DX11. The OP has provided anecdotal evidence, mostly word of mouth, that this is 'upgrading' the game to use DX11.

Much like '64-bit WAR' isn't actually 64-bit (and we'll hopefully have an update to the launcher... someday that differentiates 64-bit as 'experimental') this doesn't actually cause the exe to do anything special - except maybe limit the feature levels for DX9 shown by the GPU to the OS.

I wouldn't say it's a /bad/ thing to do, but what the OP is saying is simply not true with regards to DX11, and a result of unrelated meddling with operating system configurations. As long as you only edit the flags for WAR.exe in this manner, the risk is minimal but I would like to warn the OP from making threads like this without the technical details laid out bare to see. Your post is written as, "Just trust me, bro", and I challenge you to do better than that and understand why you are seeing results as you do.
Last edited by Secrets on Fri Apr 08, 2022 1:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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tvbrowntown
Suspended
Posts: 272

Re: EXPERIMENTAL force dx 11.0

Post#13 » Fri Apr 08, 2022 2:52 am

Secrets wrote: Fri Apr 08, 2022 12:36 am This will NOT force the game to use DX9. The OP has provided anecdotal evidence, mostly word of mouth, that this is 'upgrading' the game to use DX9.
Might wanna fix that to dx11/12 since the game does infact use dx9 :P

But yeah, figured this "fix" wasn't quite accurate.

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Tesq
Posts: 5704

Re: EXPERIMENTAL force dx 11.0

Post#14 » Fri Apr 08, 2022 7:35 am

Secrets wrote: Fri Apr 08, 2022 12:36 am
Spoiler:
Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the only reason this remotely works is because it might (and I say /might/) limit the feature level reported by the GPU to the application, and the game is likely hitting its low spec PC performance flag (which may trigger on some laptops, for instance) and that is the primary reason for your 'bump' in performance.

This will NOT force the game to use DX9. The OP has provided anecdotal evidence, mostly word of mouth, that this is 'upgrading' the game to use DX9.

Much like '64-bit WAR' isn't actually 64-bit (and we'll hopefully have an update to the launcher... someday that differentiates 64-bit as 'experimental') this doesn't actually cause the exe to do anything special - except maybe limit the feature levels for DX9 shown by the GPU to the OS.

I wouldn't say it's a /bad/ thing to do, but what the OP is saying is simply not true with regards to DX11, and a result of unrelated meddling with operating system configurations. As long as you only edit the flags for WAR.exe in this manner, the risk is minimal but I would like to warn the OP from making threads like this without the technical details laid out bare to see. Your post is written as, "Just trust me, bro", and I challenge you to do better than that and understand why you are seeing results as you do.


the post wrote experimental for that reason and the "trust that it work" part it's regarding doing something, whatever it is for which i alredy told im not sure, in fact again it's labeled as experimental.
It's not something harmful for your pc (it work on game only exe), ppl and you can test if it help, if it does not np for them. ppl can simply report they didnt found anything usefull.

Also i dont understand what you mean with reach low end performance but it's gona be my lack of knowledge /language barrier, what i see is 2-3 ppl alredy benefith from it (1 in this thread) so if it help ppl play with less problem it's a good thing.
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Fenris78
Posts: 787

Re: EXPERIMENTAL force dx 11.0

Post#15 » Fri Apr 08, 2022 12:03 pm

unfairway2003 wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 7:55 pm I used with Win10 on 1050 ti, had to used the Win7-9 file because the Win10 file didnt work, and when I started the game I noticed it disabled the ability to max GPU on settings:
It does that for me too (win7, GTX 1080) and it works fine and crashless for now (tested for 3-4 days now). Looks like it doesnt have influence for the game behavior, afaik.
unfairway2003 wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 7:55 pm Tried around with setting to 11_0, 11_1, and 12_1, kept noticing that random faces of some players would look like this and it took a little bit of time for game to automatically load their faces properly again:
Yes, It's the texture trilinear filtering messing around : disable trilinear filtering and texture filtering sampling optimization, but set texture filtering quality to "Quality" and it should be fine.



On my end, tested this and it's mind-blowing. Sent it to another 4-5 guildies and they had the same experience as well.

So far, our general settings to make it works stutterless/crashless :
- dxcpl.exe version 6.3
- Set Force WARP (asynchronous method) on, and 11_1 feature limit (for win7 users), use 12_0 or 12_1 instead on win10.
- Run windowed mode + Show frame enabled (didnt try comparing fullscreen for now)
- NEVER set effects quality to HIGH, limit to Balanced or Fastest Framerate. Max quality will make you crash.
- Set chat text limit to 2000 or lower. Setting to 8k will make you stutter after big fights.
- Set Draw distance a bit lower if you experience stuttering by loading stuff.
- On graphic driver, set Trilinear filtering to OFF, and texture quality to "Quality", to avoid blurred textures or strange texture streaming issues.
- Set Vsync to "Adaptive" if possible, to avoid tearing.


My experience after 3-4 days of testing (win7, GTX1080, 64 Gb RAM, Virtual memory completely disabled) :
- Max fps and very smooth camera movements, not stutter after loading stuff and enemy encounter, with all effects on.
- Goes down to 30-45 fps during mild fights, but no lag input or stuttering due to effects being played. It's smooth, with occasional little hangouts due to zone change (TC-Talabecland, and such)
- Goes down to 10-15 fps when 100+ players hitting lord / very big keep/fort pushes, but still things are fluid, without stutter or lag between skills and such.
- Can still stutter slightly after big encounters, things tends to return to normal shortly. Barely anymore need to relaunch game and cleaning cache, I also forgot the /rel thing.

Cherry on the top, I can run both DX proxy AND reShade (4.9.1 version, newer dont work on my system), wich was not possible with the DXVK proxy.

I can say it's a massive improvement over the previous years I (we) had to constantly suffer from stutter/lag/crashes.
I can now play with all effects on (albeit not to max quality but it's fine), and combat log enabled, without fearing game to crash anymore, so... GG for the find !
Last edited by Fenris78 on Fri Apr 08, 2022 5:40 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Secrets
Former Staff
Posts: 414

Re: EXPERIMENTAL force dx 11.0

Post#16 » Fri Apr 08, 2022 1:14 pm

tvbrowntown wrote: Fri Apr 08, 2022 2:52 am
Secrets wrote: Fri Apr 08, 2022 12:36 am This will NOT force the game to use DX9. The OP has provided anecdotal evidence, mostly word of mouth, that this is 'upgrading' the game to use DX9.
Might wanna fix that to dx11/12 since the game does infact use dx9 :P

But yeah, figured this "fix" wasn't quite accurate.
Sorry, yeah, updated it. I'm stressed and my mind is scrambled.

User avatar
Tesq
Posts: 5704

Re: EXPERIMENTAL force dx 11.0

Post#17 » Mon Apr 11, 2022 2:10 pm

i leave here some data on which spec + setting ppl saw an improvement (i updated main post aswell)

Code: Select all

rx550 (amd) win 7 pro
forced dx11.0 
fullscreen with show frame enable
alternative v-sync


gtx1080 (nvidia) win 7 pro 
forced dx11.1(WARP)
windowed with show frame enable
alternative v-sync

////////////

gtx Titan (nvidia) win 10
forced dx 12.1(WARP)
windowed with show frame enable

Uknown GPU  win10,  
forced dx 12.1 (WARP)
windowed with show frame enable

/////////////

rtx 3090 (nvidia) win 11
forced dx11.1 (????)
???? with ???? enable/disable

/////////////
Image

User avatar
unfairway2003
Posts: 14

Re: EXPERIMENTAL force dx 11.0

Post#18 » Sun Sep 18, 2022 4:49 am

Fenris78 wrote: Fri Apr 08, 2022 12:03 pm
unfairway2003 wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 7:55 pm I used with Win10 on 1050 ti, had to used the Win7-9 file because the Win10 file didnt work, and when I started the game I noticed it disabled the ability to max GPU on settings:
It does that for me too (win7, GTX 1080) and it works fine and crashless for now (tested for 3-4 days now). Looks like it doesnt have influence for the game behavior, afaik.
unfairway2003 wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 7:55 pm Tried around with setting to 11_0, 11_1, and 12_1, kept noticing that random faces of some players would look like this and it took a little bit of time for game to automatically load their faces properly again:
Yes, It's the texture trilinear filtering messing around : disable trilinear filtering and texture filtering sampling optimization, but set texture filtering quality to "Quality" and it should be fine.



On my end, tested this and it's mind-blowing. Sent it to another 4-5 guildies and they had the same experience as well.

So far, our general settings to make it works stutterless/crashless :
- dxcpl.exe version 6.3
- Set Force WARP (asynchronous method) on, and 11_1 feature limit (for win7 users), use 12_0 or 12_1 instead on win10.
- Run windowed mode + Show frame enabled (didnt try comparing fullscreen for now)
- NEVER set effects quality to HIGH, limit to Balanced or Fastest Framerate. Max quality will make you crash.
- Set chat text limit to 2000 or lower. Setting to 8k will make you stutter after big fights.
- Set Draw distance a bit lower if you experience stuttering by loading stuff.
- On graphic driver, set Trilinear filtering to OFF, and texture quality to "Quality", to avoid blurred textures or strange texture streaming issues.
- Set Vsync to "Adaptive" if possible, to avoid tearing.


My experience after 3-4 days of testing (win7, GTX1080, 64 Gb RAM, Virtual memory completely disabled) :
- Max fps and very smooth camera movements, not stutter after loading stuff and enemy encounter, with all effects on.
- Goes down to 30-45 fps during mild fights, but no lag input or stuttering due to effects being played. It's smooth, with occasional little hangouts due to zone change (TC-Talabecland, and such)
- Goes down to 10-15 fps when 100+ players hitting lord / very big keep/fort pushes, but still things are fluid, without stutter or lag between skills and such.
- Can still stutter slightly after big encounters, things tends to return to normal shortly. Barely anymore need to relaunch game and cleaning cache, I also forgot the /rel thing.

Cherry on the top, I can run both DX proxy AND reShade (4.9.1 version, newer dont work on my system), wich was not possible with the DXVK proxy.

I can say it's a massive improvement over the previous years I (we) had to constantly suffer from stutter/lag/crashes.
I can now play with all effects on (albeit not to max quality but it's fine), and combat log enabled, without fearing game to crash anymore, so... GG for the find !
Thank you for the Nvidia graphic card suggestions.
However, I noticed that since the ability to max GPU settings is disabled, that the ability to see effects for anyone else is always turned off when I use reShade(4.0.1 version).
I only can see effects of myself and 1 enemy player that attacks me. I'm not going back to use this obviously and I will stick to version4.0.1 of this instead:
Sildur's Enhanced WAR v4.0.1+Vulkan! (June 19, 2022)
viewtopic.php?t=13

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Fenris78
Posts: 787

Re: EXPERIMENTAL force dx 11.0

Post#19 » Sun Sep 18, 2022 1:33 pm

unfairway2003 wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 4:49 am Thank you for the Nvidia graphic card suggestions.
However, I noticed that since the ability to max GPU settings is disabled, that the ability to see effects for anyone else is always turned off when I use reShade(4.0.1 version).
I only can see effects of myself and 1 enemy player that attacks me. I'm not going back to use this obviously and I will stick to version4.0.1 of this instead:
Sildur's Enhanced WAR v4.0.1+Vulkan! (June 19, 2022)
viewtopic.php?t=13
You welcome ;)

I'm using without issues the reshade 4.9.1 since years, I cant run the newer versions for some reason, probably my old win7, or the fact newer versions are using another version of the dx10 library wich wont let me compile both reshade and DX11 proxy...

The 4.0.1 you mention is very outdated, that's more than probably what's causing your display issue.
Try using the 4.9.1 + DX11 proxy (not the DXVK wich wont allow reshade to start) and tell me if it's working for you.

User avatar
unfairway2003
Posts: 14

Re: EXPERIMENTAL force dx 11.0

Post#20 » Sun Sep 18, 2022 4:25 pm

@Fenris78,
Oh I meant I was using the current version of Sildur's reshade and it works perfectly for me (both dxvk + reshade) so I'm all good.

I think the DX proxy works best for people using Windows 7 and your older version of Sildur's reshade (4.9.1).

I tried using this 2x so far now, both the Windows 10 and Windows 7 version on Windows 10 OS.

It didn't work, tried dx (11_0,11_1,12_0,12_1) but my GPU settings were disabled no matter what I did.

In conclusion, I again recommend the dx_proxy that @Tesq provided (which is clean for both Win7 and Win10 versions according to my kaspersky antivirus) for people stuck with using Windows 7 who are trying to optimize this great game.

For anyone wanting to experiment, PLEASE make a backup copy of your current DXCpl.exe in your C:/Windows/System 32/ folder.

If the dx_proxy that @Tesq provided you didnt work, then do this:
On the "Diredt3D 10/11/12 tab" go to the "Scope section" then click the "Edit List..." button, hit clear, than click "OK" then click "Apply" to restore what changes this dx_proxy does to your computer back to default.
Go to your "C:/Windows/System 32/ folder" and delete the dx_proxy(dxcpl.exe).
Then take your original backup of "DXCpl.exe" and put it back in this folder.


For anyone having trouble trying to move DXCpl.exe to another folder for a backup, this video helped me with the "You Require Permission From Trustedinstaller.exe" error:

Click here to watch on YouTube

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