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Replica jewels.... Clarification please.

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Secrets
Former Staff
Posts: 414

Re: Replica jewels.... Clarification please.

Post#51 » Wed Sep 21, 2022 2:05 am

wargrimnir wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 2:12 am Dev was salty they were exclusive to ranked and set them to 9999 non-ranked to force them into the non-ranked realm of availability, then quit the team shortly after so they never moved again.

They're essentially a ranked reward. If you want them, get people to play ranked and earn the ranked currency. Or we might end up discontinuing ranked for lack of interest and retire all the rewards.
You can just tell people it was me. Serves us all better if there's transparency with the decision.
One of the best decisions I've ever made was making that ring nonexclusive. There's no reason to hide my name from that decision.

Exclusive non-cosmetic rewards to a competitive mode that no one plays and exists to be gamed by an elite few doesn't serve anyone but those who gamed it.
The population isn't ever going to be high enough to sustain ranked. I'd recommend closing the mode and keeping in the .challenge command (without rewards) that allows you to challenge another team, so that the mode serves its existing purpose without being able to be gamed.

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Farrul
Posts: 282

Re: Replica jewels.... Clarification please.

Post#52 » Wed Sep 21, 2022 6:48 am

wargrimnir wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 6:45 pm
SuperStar wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 6:36 pm
wargrimnir wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 6:26 pm Something else to keep in mind, there will be more gear sets. We're not done yet. Ranked sets might be the best that were earned from scenarios, but we still have Darkpromise and Tovl to introduce with the ROR twist that would be comparable. That might be a BIS ring today, but it's not planned to be forever.
Do not remove the access to get a gear and left them on on others imo, it make injustice feeling. Not healthy and not good.
I'm just talking, not making a decision.

My personal feelings regarding that feeling of injustice? You didn't do anything to earn it. Sometimes the world moves on before you get a chance, sometimes you show up too late. That's life. If you want ranked gear the best option would be to support ranked as a game mode and make noise about getting it tweaked and restarted. Complaining the ring costs too much or might disappear before you get a chance isn't reasonably actionable. It's supposed to be difficult to earn in the first place. If that difficulty no longer exists, then it would be much more unjust for the people that already earned it the hard way to have their accomplishments turned to piss so the non-ranked majority can just... have it. Reminds me very much of when they were selling sov gear on live for gold, gross.
Unjust or not it would be a terrible idea to remove the jewel imho, unless you replace it with something similar in power in terms of the flexebility the ring(3-4 set bonuses) offers or remove it for everyone that did not earn it through ranked(either way this would be a controversial decision) .

Why? Because at this point many characters already have it equipped and the advantage is significant enough compared to not having the possibility to get it at all( especially MDPS / vicious strikes/ 5 sov/4 ranked combo) .

That's a motivation killer for creating new toons/ new players joining knowing they can never achieve the power of older geared characters, creating disparity/ imbalance character-wise has never been good for any game and points to unhealthy elitism(even if that is not the intention). Personally if i was new and found out about such a thing i would think twice before joining.

Not saying it was an objectively good/bad desicion to make it available to everyone but now that it has been requires a certain care imho, players did not choose to make it available and should therefore not have to suffer the consequences of its removal, at this point in time that would be the real unjustice.

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TanithScout
Posts: 106

Re: Replica jewels.... Clarification please.

Post#53 » Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:36 am

wargrimnir wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 2:44 pm
TanithScout wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 2:11 pm Wow, best line ever.

Square key, round hole. I implore whoever the devs in question are to keep going, maybe it'll fit next year if you push it in hard enough. Maybe add a new set equivalent to TOVL/LOTD gear to get people hooked on the spirit of RoR'S version of competition. Maybe you'll get your vision come true then and everyone who plays RoR for RvR will magicly decide they are actually interested in 6v6, because the devs in question told them so. No idea why they even want to RvR anyway, peasants.

Regarding the balance thats popping up. Live was terribad right at the start with RoF then OYK issues then at the 'end' when TOVL gear **** it up insanely. Insane because everyone knows it was a Custers Last Stand move to keep people playing. Between those times imo it was just the same as any other game with its ups and downs but nothing major or drastic GENERALLY SPEAKING. As quoted above though, balance is subjective. Especially when you try to force an entire game mode down peoples throats detracting from the very reason people are here in the first place.
To be clear, I don't think it's impossible to have a ranked mode active and played by more people. Here's some ideas that I've floated in the past

- Reduce the frequency of MMR updates to weekly rather than immediately following every match. The anxiety of MMR going up and down was very clear within the first few weeks of the system going live.
- Limit the window that Ranked is available to condense the largest number of players into a small number of matches. More availability of players means better MMR matchmaking.
- Limit rewards to consumables and cosmetics/mounts which last the entire next season. We know historically that gating gear behind limited content is bad (see people who dislike dungeons/forts/cities)
- Cloaks are relatively simple to design, so make an option for top teams from each realm to have a custom designed cloak as a reward. Their artwork, our approval.
- Create a proper arena map explicitly for ranked. Very flat, perfectly symmetrical, limited obstructions. The LOTD arena would have been great for this, still could be.
- Hard-set your stats to be equalized during ranked matches. This does go against a lot of our old school MMO design tenets (gear is power, consumables for gold), and would only really fit in a ranked mode. But would alleviate the BIS gear stomping issue and make skill almost the explicit factor in winning.

Plenty of community members have had ideas as well, and as one might expect, the ideas from existing players of ranked were taken into highest consideration as the existing base was more important than players that might not play a ranked mode at all. Either way, Dalen is rather busy working on the ability system framework, and we've got a load of new players that probably have ranked way down on their priority list of things to get tweaked/adjusted. I wouldn't expect any real movement on it in the near future.
Thats good to know. I had 1600+ MMR the first and only season I played. Its a joke and Im glad its going under, as it sucks people into something AOR wasn't and RoR is.
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Evilspinnre
Posts: 366

Re: Replica jewels.... Clarification please.

Post#54 » Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:00 am

During the first Peonwave, sov gear was only accessible via cities. Many complained and royals were made to drop from bags - once a lot of players obtained their sov gear they quit. Remove or lower the price of the ring and see the same happen.

Gearing in the current state of the game is the easiest it's ever been, with PvE ward unlocks and unified currency. I made 1.2k crests in one night of RvR when grinding the ring on slayer. It's not that bad.
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rejndjer
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Re: Replica jewels.... Clarification please.

Post#55 » Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:12 am

people didn't quit becuase they got sov gear, nor will they quit once they get ranked ring if it were to get cheaper.

idk how you made 1.2k crests in one night. on monday night our guild wb had like 400+kills (in 3 hours), and even counting for rewards from locks/fort defense + half of influence bar (while influence gain is 2x). even if i counted crests from first 2 rvr weekly rewards, my gain for that night was not more than 300 crests.

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MedV
Posts: 293

Re: Replica jewels.... Clarification please.

Post#56 » Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:26 am

Secrets wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 2:05 am
wargrimnir wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 2:12 am Dev was salty they were exclusive to ranked and set them to 9999 non-ranked to force them into the non-ranked realm of availability, then quit the team shortly after so they never moved again.

They're essentially a ranked reward. If you want them, get people to play ranked and earn the ranked currency. Or we might end up discontinuing ranked for lack of interest and retire all the rewards.
You can just tell people it was me. Serves us all better if there's transparency with the decision.
One of the best decisions I've ever made was making that ring nonexclusive. There's no reason to hide my name from that decision.

Exclusive non-cosmetic rewards to a competitive mode that no one plays and exists to be gamed by an elite few doesn't serve anyone but those who gamed it.
The population isn't ever going to be high enough to sustain ranked. I'd recommend closing the mode and keeping in the .challenge command (without rewards) that allows you to challenge another team, so that the mode serves its existing purpose without being able to be gamed.
Making the ring nonexclusive was the best thing the devs ever did. Knowing it was you only gives me more respect. I honestly loved ranked but couldn’t get matches in NA time.

Felt weird to have BIS ring be locked behind a time-zone and dead content.

Bravo Secrets
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Akalukz
Posts: 1587

Re: Replica jewels.... Clarification please.

Post#57 » Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:54 am

Evilspinnre wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:00 am During the first Peonwave, sov gear was only accessible via cities. Many complained and royals were made to drop from bags - once a lot of players obtained their sov gear they quit. Remove or lower the price of the ring and see the same happen.

Gearing in the current state of the game is the easiest it's ever been, with PvE ward unlocks and unified currency. I made 1.2k crests in one night of RvR when grinding the ring on slayer. It's not that bad.
True not true, not many new players will grind 1.2k crests in an evening. That is top-tier player rewards. I would imagine a new player maybe luck to gain 50 a night, if they get lucky.
Last edited by Akalukz on Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Gladiolix
Posts: 181

Re: Replica jewels.... Clarification please.

Post#58 » Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:55 am

rejndjer wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:12 am people didn't quit becuase they got sov gear, nor will they quit once they get ranked ring if it were to get cheaper.
Most people who find the grind towards ranked jewels at current prices too arduous, will not get any use of it as they see it as an end goal. Reroll or quit game after achieving it. I mean why would they keep playing the game if they think the daily rvr grind is too much work and not fun..? Or at least not fun enough to grind to 9999 WCs.

I think many players are on the false assumption that the "BiS jewel" is going to make their class exponentially better, frankly it doesn't. The smaller scale you play, the more the gear matters. Good solo players will definately get a power boost with ranked jewel in many cases, but running in 24man PUG warbands you most likely will not see any difference. With sentinel ring you're well competent enough in all content of the game. That's why I argue keeping the ranked rings price as is, reward for the players that stick around, to reward them from hard work.

I personally don't yet have the ring on any of my characters, and I don't feel it hindering me in any way, in any content. More so it's motivating me to keep playing so one day I'll get to enjoy it as a fruit of my labor.
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Akalukz
Posts: 1587

Re: Replica jewels.... Clarification please.

Post#59 » Wed Sep 21, 2022 12:00 pm

Gladiolix wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:55 am
rejndjer wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:12 am people didn't quit becuase they got sov gear, nor will they quit once they get ranked ring if it were to get cheaper.
Most people who find the grind towards ranked jewels at current prices too arduous, will not get any use of it as they see it as an end goal. Reroll or quit game after achieving it. I mean why would they keep playing the game if they think the daily rvr grind is too much work and not fun..? Or at least not fun enough to grind to 9999 WCs.

I think many players are on the false assumption that the "BiS jewel" is going to make their class exponentially better, frankly it doesn't. The smaller scale you play, the more the gear matters. Good solo players will definately get a power boost with ranked jewel in many cases, but running in 24man PUG warbands you most likely will not see any difference. With sentinel ring you're well competent enough in all content of the game. That's why I argue keeping the ranked rings price as is, reward for the players that stick around, to reward them from hard work.

I personally don't yet have the ring on any of my characters, and I don't feel it hindering me in any way, in any content. More so it's motivating me to keep playing so one day I'll get to enjoy it as a fruit of my labor.
Agreed, I see nothing wrong with the price, i dislike the "replica" tag, but other than that it's fine. Note - I do not have it on any of my upteen characters, and probably won't. but it is a nice carrot on a stick.
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dwyur
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Re: Replica jewels.... Clarification please.

Post#60 » Wed Sep 21, 2022 12:59 pm

Secrets wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 2:05 am
wargrimnir wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 2:12 am Dev was salty they were exclusive to ranked and set them to 9999 non-ranked to force them into the non-ranked realm of availability, then quit the team shortly after so they never moved again.

They're essentially a ranked reward. If you want them, get people to play ranked and earn the ranked currency. Or we might end up discontinuing ranked for lack of interest and retire all the rewards.
You can just tell people it was me. Serves us all better if there's transparency with the decision.
One of the best decisions I've ever made was making that ring nonexclusive. There's no reason to hide my name from that decision.

Exclusive non-cosmetic rewards to a competitive mode that no one plays and exists to be gamed by an elite few doesn't serve anyone but those who gamed it.
The population isn't ever going to be high enough to sustain ranked. I'd recommend closing the mode and keeping in the .challenge command (without rewards) that allows you to challenge another team, so that the mode serves its existing purpose without being able to be gamed.
Why remove a game mode just because it's enjoyed by 'an elite few'? A lot of the elite few keep this server going when the population recently reached low points, and run many of the organized warbands, inviting pugs when trying to fill. I don't see the point in removing ranked simply because at the moment it's not active, though there are still pops that happen. Once the gear was attained yeah it was always going to die down- there should be some sort of incentive related to it or have a monthly ranked event to get it running again. I agree with the decision to make it accessible to players who never want to play ranked, no issue there really. I would also have no issue if it remained only accessible to ranked, as I would've eventually started to queue to attain the gear.
I think I queued for ranked handful of times but I don't have a BiS character and didn't want to be a detriment to my team being targeted and killed over and over, plus 6v6 just isn't that appealing to me.
I don't thnk removing another game mode & purpose for BiS players to play the game is good for the server.
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