DPS Zealot today...

[ItsWotop]

Hello,

It is I Wotopheals my gear is as follows
5 piece Sov fatemaker
3 victorious (gloves , helm for reduced chance to be disrupted)
3 genesis for more reduced chance to be disrupted
Nihilist Skinflayer of Anathema / Bloodlord focus
sit at 984 int +214.2 magic dmg and 23% chance to cit. (no pots or linis)
run scourged warping/chaotic force/ divine fury/ changers touch. sometimes Transference (never realized it had reduced chance to be disrupted on it, adding that tooltip would be nice).

I have thought of this for a bit and I think some simple changes may be as follows
- Put our heal debuff from changers touch tactic right onto MoM (may be too much with it dealing dmg on heal but can prob scale it if needed).
- I think making BoT work kind of like leaping alteration would be neat. So basically you cast it on enemy in bounces around and heals you or defensive target for a % of dmg dealt (would make a vamp build better).
- making disrupt strike through work properly would be nice I also feel like it does not help a lot getting our damage through (could switch changers touch tactic around if heal debuff is moved to MoM, make new tactic scale extra spell damage based off % disrupt strikethrough if that's possible).
- Scale our dmg up a lil I also feel very lacking, or make the vamp on transference a lil better to make a solo vamp build viable (This way at least if we are not pumping tons of dps we can at least survive and kite around.
- Some sort of execute similar to shadow word death would be cool I always like killing myself with that button.
- Having a ritual that was specifically for a dps spec would be neat I think probably the shield one is least used for healers so probably that one.
- Just thought of while having a smoke but having some sort of health scaling dmg mechanic would be cool for a dps vamp build. Like lets say there is a tactic that makes damaging spells while in harbinger stance cost a % of hp instead of ap, so your dmg and build time for only damage spells scales with how low your hp gets while in harbinger. To make it vampy with some of the stuff above you would just try to get a shock off kite swap out of harbinger get some heals off until you can swap back and then keep pumping hp for dmg. Could be neat idk these vape pens are too intense for me lol
as far as the aoe amour/corp debuff build with winds of insanity and everything I think that spec works alright if played properly the only thing I ever noticed with that is demon spittle almost never seems to actually hit anything, other than that its fun and can be useful as far as I have seen.

<3 to everyone that still keeps this game alive and playable, no matter what happens I will still be out there solo roam on my zealot, and if you get me in a sc and see the little dps icon don't complain to me I play this game to have fun and I have fun playing this class this way. If you don't like it roll a healer and heal .

[Darkdargor]

Than again, healers aren’t meant to be awesome dps-s. Healers heal, dps classes do dmg, tanks protect dps classes.

Now, that healer classes can do some fluff dmg, is another story.

Afaik zealots have a LOT of group support abilities + awesome heals. RPs as well.

Every class is unique in its own way, which, imo, is very good.

Not to mention that in rvr almost no one wants a dps healer (because it will never ever fill the spot of a REAL dps class) in a warband, except in rare situations for the well known specific debuffs.

I I were you, I’d roll a sorc or a magus. Gl.

[Dackjanielz]

i agree with what Scotty is saying.

The RP/ZL are in a good place because while its true the dmg numbers are not all that impressive but they can still heal/support/utility rather well and this is a GOOD thing! - They are a healing class so they should still be good at performing that role regardless.

Wrath priest on the other hand i think needs looking into because currently it does the opposite....The dmg they do is fairly good but they have zero utility or healing when specced for that role and that is not how it should be behaving especially when compared to its mirror, the Torture DOK who has an AOE snare and a healing m1 ability even when DPS specced.

A good example of what i mean in action is a Conquest Knight.
Despite being "DPS specced" the dmg they infact do is infact rather pitiful, increased yes but not by vast amounts.
Instead the main strength of that build is STILL being a tank - solid defensive power and utility......Big boom punts, impressive debuff, can still guard well.

[Valfaros]

@ItsWotop
The heal debuff tactic as it is has about the most value of the entire spec. It not being a ability that you have to cast, doens't need to hit and has no cd makes it so valueble. Your suggestion would make it worse. It allows to quickly switch target and confidently apply the hd given that you have high critchance (I run 38%). With the nerf to heal hd tactic (can only be applied on main target) I feel zealot and rp definitly deserve a buff. The single target spec (alchemy, witchcraft) and aoe dps spec (alchemy or witchcraft + dark rites) must be among the least played specs for a reason. They are pretty weak. Lacking burst or valuble utility.

However I tried out MoM and it is definitly lacking especially as it competes with the stagger a way more valuble option. It should be instant and have no or only 5s cd. Alternativly to the cd reduction it could be unavoidable. This would help give more utulity to the spec as it would make the zealot an actual threat to sustained healing within a group setting.


BoT can be actually increadible allowing for 1.5 - 2k heals on squishy targets with transference. Of course problematic is high resistance guarded targets which renders it pretty bad in these cases. I further dislike that for clutch moments to heal your mate 2s can be too late. Your suggestion might be intressting but doesn't really fit into the single target tree. The skill further also acts as the highest hitting ability dps zealot has and is part of the burst rotation (bot+instant scourge+sor+Tc). Its change to aoe could worsen the already lacking burst. I would suggest a flat heal value to be added to make it more consitant against higher defensive targets.

I agree, a excecute skill would be very valuble. I'm actually not sure if the all this vampy talk you added would be fitting lore wise to the class. Certainly it would require larger changes as currently the class has less dps burst heal and sustained heal than a dps dok. Transference is nice but it's rather a slow trickle than bursty healing when you need it. I feel like transference could defenitly be buffed. Maybe include dots in the healing and then see from there.

A dps ritual would be intressting however I don't see myself speccing into it. Without the ap ritual I run out of ap very quickly hence I could never run the dps ritual.

My biggest complaint with the class still remains with the resitance debuff tactic. The single target spec preforms terrible against certain classes (or a kotb is present) and has no chance without killing itself to apply the debuff. It's in the aoe tree on a skill that hits nothing and lasts only very short times. The value of the corp resistance debuff in this instance is very limited hence I would change it to be more broadly viable in wb play. Keep the armor debuff, remove the corp resistance debuff, increased duration and dps of the dot + reduce chance of affected targets to disrupt by x. Making zealot and rp more viable again in wb play after the nerf of the hd tactic.

Additinally add corp debuff to warp reality, make it scale exponentially with points in the tree to limit value for heal specs or add it to transference. Same for rp with elemental debuff. This would make rp or zealot somewhat more viable in a ranged smallscale groups with bw or sorc. Alternativly introduce resistance strikethrough with the harbinger.


@Darkdargor

Than again, healers aren’t meant to be awesome dps-s. Healers heal, dps classes do dmg, tanks protect dps classes.

Now, that healer classes can do some fluff dmg, is another story.

Afaik zealots have a LOT of group support abilities + awesome heals. RPs as well.

Every class is unique in its own way, which, imo, is very good.

Not to mention that in rvr almost no one wants a dps healer (because it will never ever fill the spot of a REAL dps class) in a warband, except in rare situations for the well known specific debuffs.

I I were you, I’d roll a sorc or a magus. Gl.

This was already covered by Scottx125 which I agree with. A class in war is not defined by its traditional 'role' but rather the spec you picked in the mastery line. The exsistance of divine fury makes this very clear, that dps healers were intented to be a viable option. Zealot has a bit of a strange setup but was very much intented to have both heal and dps. Alchemy being single target dps and heal; witchcraft, hots and dots; dark rites, aoe heal and dps. Currently heal works by combining the trees while dps both single target focused or aoe focused is lacking which you agree with as you kindly point out to players 'go play something else'


@Dackjanielz

i agree with what Scotty is saying.

The RP/ZL are in a good place because while its true the dmg numbers are not all that impressive but they can still heal/support/utility rather well and this is a GOOD thing! - They are a healing class so they should still be good at performing that role regardless.

Wait this is not what Scottx was saying at all?

Sorry no, I disagree. A class is defined by it's spec in WAR. Not by it's traditional 'role'. Do I think Healers as DPS spec should out damage pure DPS? No. But they should bring something to the table to be viable in warband content which makes up for the lack of DPS. If you can't have full DPS, you need to have utility. Which is something most DPS healers (excluding AM/Shamans) don't have that other specs on other classes do better.

So he is saying they are not in a good place and you say the opposite. He clearly mentions they lack of utility. Please learn to read.

I think you never played a dps zealot or rp as you would know how terrible the current iteration of the harbinger is for heal/dps switch. With divine fury your heals are not going to be great but most importantly it locks you out of dps for 20 s. Guess what you can't fullfill either a hybrid role if you get locked out of one of them for this duration.

[Omegus]

2023 predictions: talon, vomit and stagger get nerfed.

[ItsWotop]

@ItsWotop
The heal debuff tactic as it is has about the most value of the entire spec. It not being a ability that you have to cast, doens't need to hit and has no cd makes it so valueble. Your suggestion would make it worse. It allows to quickly switch target and confidently apply the hd given that you have high critchance (I run 38%). With the nerf to heal hd tactic (can only be applied on main target) I feel zealot and rp definitly deserve a buff. The single target spec (alchemy, witchcraft) and aoe dps spec (alchemy or witchcraft + dark rites) must be among the least played specs for a reason. They are pretty weak. Lacking burst or valuble utility.

uhhh its 50% reduction on crit... so I get that if I warp reality everyone or demon spit everyone and it crits its awesome but, for example AM has a instant cast dot that does the same 50% debuff, So they guarantee heal debuff and dmg. Basically the same way my warp reality would work but with a heal debuff built in allowing them another tactic slot, Saying that relying on my 23% chance to crit to apply my most useful tactic I have when other classes can press one button to do the same and apply another dot to target is a bit of a stretch. If anything just give us another dot with heal debuff on it and remove the tactic having another button to press would be nice also. Thats why I was saying put our heal debuff on MoM maybe change the reduction to healing a bit if you keep the causing target to be damaged on heal part.

[Bozzax]

There is no DPS zele spec currently it just afail-a-lot spec

You can spec it but all wants you to respec

[Cyrylius]

All will include you BTW.

[Valfaros]

@ItsWotop
The heal debuff tactic as it is has about the most value of the entire spec. It not being a ability that you have to cast, doens't need to hit and has no cd makes it so valueble. Your suggestion would make it worse. It allows to quickly switch target and confidently apply the hd given that you have high critchance (I run 38%). With the nerf to heal hd tactic (can only be applied on main target) I feel zealot and rp definitly deserve a buff. The single target spec (alchemy, witchcraft) and aoe dps spec (alchemy or witchcraft + dark rites) must be among the least played specs for a reason. They are pretty weak. Lacking burst or valuble utility.

uhhh its 50% reduction on crit... so I get that if I warp reality everyone or demon spit everyone and it crits its awesome but, for example AM has a instant cast dot that does the same 50% debuff, So they guarantee heal debuff and dmg. Basically the same way my warp reality would work but with a heal debuff built in allowing them another tactic slot, Saying that relying on my 23% chance to crit to apply my most useful tactic I have when other classes can press one button to do the same and apply another dot to target is a bit of a stretch. If anything just give us another dot with heal debuff on it and remove the tactic having another button to press would be nice also. Thats why I was saying put our heal debuff on MoM maybe change the reduction to healing a bit if you keep the causing target to be damaged on heal part.

As far as I know dots do not trigger it, especially demon spit critting everyone will at best yield 1 debuff on your main target. The aoe part was nerfed from this tactic. Yes if you have only 23 % crit you should put more focus towards it, especially at your gearlevel.

If it's an additional skill without cd that would be okay however it will have a cooldown. Hence you can not switch targets quickly without having the hd up again relativly quickly too. You further need to land it making it worse against healers and it can be cleansed which with a cooldown means you have to wait to reapply. AM has a lot of cover dots and the skill is positioned at 9 points. It does however have a 10s cooldown. The tactic is still superior to this as you bring more utility through the permanent uptime on any target currently in group focus. For solo I agree another dot would be better but for group play I don't see it.

The exception is ofcourse if there are way better tactics available or the ability it comes with is very worthwhile / cheap. However on zealot none of this is true. You are starved for every spec point as you basiacally want everything as dps zealot while the healers only really need a couple things. There are also no other really good tactics available.

I also think it's one of the few think that you could change but it isn't really something that is crucially problematic atm. I'd say the main points dps zealot needs are higher burst, more utility or better ways to deal with resistances. I can't keep begging BOs to play and use waaaaagh everytime I play.

2023 predictions: talon, vomit and stagger get nerfed.

As my dps zealo is suprisingly working well I can see this happen. When I restarted I was already surprised the zealot somehow ended up with 2 nerfs. Aoe heal debuff removal and zealot skills changed from undefendable. So yeah that would be rather fitting.

There is no DPS zele spec currently it just afail-a-lot spec

You can spec it but all wants you to respec

There are certainly these people around but if it's fun who cares. I keep my own policy if there is 1 healer within my sc grp I do my thing if there is 0 I switch to heal tactics. Hardly heared ever complaints after a sc. Often even end up among the top dps contributers to kills but of coruse you can't keep up with a great sorc or guarded meele train which I think is fair.

[BluIzLucky]

2023 predictions: talon, vomit and stagger get nerfed.

How about RoL bug fix/nerf to indirect heal?

On serious note; All staggers should get nerfed to give 10 sec immunity per 1 sec staggered.