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DPS Zealot today...

Chosen, Magus, Marauder, Zealot
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Detangler
Posts: 986

DPS Zealot today...

Post#1 » Wed Sep 28, 2022 3:43 pm

Is just disappointing from a damage perspective.

Trying different builds to see what is viable and works, but the build lacks any sort of punch compared to other DPS healer specs. I'm currently running 5 off sov 3 victorious with bloodlord/fort weapons and int/will talismans slotted (mostly), ~31% crit, 12 disrupt strikethru (before transference +10% strikethru), 900+ into, maybe 200 magic power (can't check at the moment cause on the road), and I'm lucky to break 1k on a squishy target with low resists. More likely I'm critting for 7-800 at most. Yes, that's a lot of disrupt strikethru but I really hate when my stagger or silence doesn't land.

Anyone find anything useful for solo, small group, or warband play that makes you feel as effective as playing a healing role? Seems every time I try DPS out I feel more like a burden than a boon. Heal debuff spec is not that effective or reliable considering its single target only and is plentiful from other classes. Aoe armor and Corp debuff can easily be applied without having to go DPS route.

Support DPS without slotting divine fury has been considerably more effective for me, but I still have dreams of actually doing real damage somewhere in the realm of AM/sham or dok/WP.

Am I chasing a dream?
Detangler and alts - 84 Chosen, other 40s - DoK, Zealot, SH, WE, BG, BO
Destro - Mostly Harmless
Tangler and alts - 8X IB, other 40s - RP, SM
Order - Most dishonorable

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Przepraszam
Posts: 98

Re: DPS Zealot today...

Post#2 » Wed Sep 28, 2022 5:38 pm

Dps Rp/Zealot is simply pathetic, i wonder how much manpower removing cooldowns from our dots /buffing damage would take ( i guess tree revamp is outside of question). Mayby we should put this on bug tracker as this spec just doesn't work...
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Millivanilli Karvosky

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Toggle
Posts: 286

Re: DPS Zealot today...

Post#3 » Wed Sep 28, 2022 6:23 pm

Detangler wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 3:43 pm Is just disappointing from a damage perspective.

Trying different builds to see what is viable and works, but the build lacks any sort of punch compared to other DPS healer specs. I'm currently running 5 off sov 3 victorious with bloodlord/fort weapons and int/will talismans slotted (mostly), ~31% crit, 12 disrupt strikethru (before transference +10% strikethru), 900+ into, maybe 200 magic power (can't check at the moment cause on the road), and I'm lucky to break 1k on a squishy target with low resists. More likely I'm critting for 7-800 at most. Yes, that's a lot of disrupt strikethru but I really hate when my stagger or silence doesn't land.

Anyone find anything useful for solo, small group, or warband play that makes you feel as effective as playing a healing role? Seems every time I try DPS out I feel more like a burden than a boon. Heal debuff spec is not that effective or reliable considering its single target only and is plentiful from other classes. Aoe armor and Corp debuff can easily be applied without having to go DPS route.

Support DPS without slotting divine fury has been considerably more effective for me, but I still have dreams of actually doing real damage somewhere in the realm of AM/sham or dok/WP.

Am I chasing a dream?
Sadly, yes. Zealot was my first toon and main for a long, long time. Had to move away from it when I realized I wasn’t useful without a group. I play in NA, and I’m pretty casual. So, I needed a class that could go group play as well as roam solo. Zealot got shelved and shammy was made.

That being said, I would love to see them be a viable option.
Shaman - 40/8X
Zealot - 40/8X [Retired]
AM - 40/8X
RP - 40/7X [Retired]

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BluIzLucky
Posts: 691

Re: DPS Zealot today...

Post#4 » Wed Sep 28, 2022 10:22 pm

Zealot is like Kotbs and RP is like Chosen, in that ZL trades more utility for less damage..

Low ST dps, even full offensive from my testing tops out at around 700 dps (with 3k "burst").
This is caused by a combination of low base dmg, low scaling, only 1-2 dots, and the channel dps being 80% lower than AM/SHM.

AoE DPS is decent (40-80% of actual dps), but ONLY in PvE as you can go close and use Winds of Insanity and Waves of Chaos which are your main dps, though low ST dps means you are useless in boss fights, so you still have to take healer spot as hybrid.
Trying this in PvP is a whole other story, targets move so WoC is out and since they fight back getting close (melee range) as a glass cannon meant for 150f range is an issue (even assuming you have guard and 2 healers).

RP gets around this to some degree by having Rune of Battle (aoe dot) and Extended Battle (increased aoe).

My experience is solo zealot should (can) beat BW, engi and slayer by out running/slow kill, ties with tanks and healers (and dps healers) since everyones dps is too low and lose to the rest WL, WH, SW, so 3/12 are winnable..
I think RP is a little better of here too, with lifetap dot and slowing dot.

In return Zealot gets Winds, Mirror of Madness, m4 heal debuff and M1 Talon.

Which just leaves you the hybrid dps role, which I think it does pretty well in some circumstances, but rarely does more dmg than a tank.
Last edited by BluIzLucky on Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
SM - Arhalien +80 | AM - Shaheena +80
ZL - Wildera +70 | BG - Blackcrow +70

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zulnam
Posts: 760

Re: DPS Zealot today...

Post#5 » Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:06 am

RP/Zealot are due for a DPS spec revamp for quite some time now. Frankly, i'm not sure the team has any solid ideas. It would be great if the team could share them with us, but the lack of any politeness shown by some users probably puts them off. People don't realise how negativity can bring a community down, even if it's not directed at someone in particular.

I think if the RP/Zealot mains come up with some ideas there might be potential for some changes. Just think it through and put it in the right subforum (Balance Proposals) so it doesn't degrade into bickering.
SW, Kotbs, IB, Slayer, WP, WL, SM, Mara, SH, BG

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Sinisterror
Posts: 838

Re: DPS Zealot today...

Post#6 » Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:06 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPw6K_MGEXY Never Forget DPS Zealot Glory Days <3 Old Harbinger with old Transference=)
"To clarify, me asking to developers to go test their own changes is not sign of toxicity or anger, but a sign of hope that the people punching in the numbers remain aware of potential consequences and test their own changes"-Teefz

Caduceus
Posts: 653

Re: DPS Zealot today...

Post#7 » Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:44 am

I think DPS RP/Zealot's niche might be as a 3rd DPS in 1-3-2 ranged group setup, in which they provide extra utility (which is severely underrated for both classes), respectable sustained DPS and life-tap heals.

More oomph, more kiting tools and extra healing to make up for a lack of a second tank.

Or, if you are a madman, 1-4-1 ranged group setup, in which the lifetaps (hopefully) can provide enough defenses together with one dedicated healer and tank.
"I watched a snail crawl along the edge of a straight razor. That's my dream; that's my nightmare. Crawling, slithering, along the edge of a straight razor... and surviving." - Colonel Walter E. Kurtz

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Ruin
Posts: 147

Re: DPS Zealot today...

Post#8 » Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:55 am

Life taps on st Zeal/RP are a joke, absorb or clense coud be considered bot not lifetaping.
clarification Efficient runecarving and transference dont have enough abilites that are instant or cast on the move to be apart of a skirmishing party. and most abilites that do direct damage are a 2sec cast or a channel.

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Detangler
Posts: 986

Re: DPS Zealot today...

Post#9 » Thu Sep 29, 2022 7:55 pm

BluIzLucky wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 10:22 pm Zealot is like Kotbs and RP is like Chosen, in that ZL trades more utility for less damage..

Low ST dps, even full offensive from my testing tops out at around 700 dps (with 3k "burst").
This is caused by a combination of low base dmg, low scaling, only 1-2 dots, and the channel dps being 80% lower than AM/SHM.

AoE DPS is decent (40-80% of actual dps), but ONLY in PvE as you can go close and use Winds of Insanity and Waves of Chaos which are your main dps, though low ST dps means you are useless in boss fights, so you still have to take healer spot as hybrid.
Trying this in PvP is a whole other story, targets move so WoC is out and since they fight back getting close (melee range) as a glass cannon meant for 150f range is an issue (even assuming you have guard and 2 healers).

RP gets around this to some degree by having Rune of Battle (aoe dot) and Extended Battle (increased aoe).

My experience is solo zealot should (can) beat BW, engi and slayer by out running/slow kill, ties with tanks and healers (and dps healers) since everyones dps is too low and lose to the rest WL, WH, SW, so 3/12 are winnable..
I think RP is a little better of here too, with lifetap dot and slowing dot.

In return Zealot gets Winds, Mirror of Madness, m4 heal debuff and M1 Talon.

Which just leaves you the hybrid dps role, which I think it does pretty well in some circumstances, but rarely does more dmg than a tank.
The actual DPS gap between Zealot and RP on a target is minimal, it's just that RP can have huge range to tag and fluff aoe numbers. And outside of aoe armor/Corp debuff, the utility a Zealot brings over RP is quite minimal.

-Winds of Insanity is situational in all but the most specific circumstances, and leaves you unable to spec for single stagger. Same for m4 heal debuff.
-Mirror of Madness has a 10 second cooldown, is on a 2 sec cast, and has an internal cooldown further limiting its potential. (edited this sentence cause I typo'd and forgot to add in the cooldown)

Hybrid assist DPS absolutely can be viable and fun, but that means not slotting Divine Fury so you don't neuter your healing. I get that harbinger of doom mechanics have to be balanced out so that you don't accidentally buff them to be a monster class that does massive damage and then can instantly swap to pure heals every 20 seconds with no downsides, but its just not worth going pure DPS route, even with end game gear and going squishy route with talismans.

Yeah, you can find videos of solo Zealots being successful solo, but they down all pots just to kill a mid gear WH that doesn't use any pots. Not exactly a shining beacon of viability...
Last edited by Detangler on Tue Oct 11, 2022 3:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
Detangler and alts - 84 Chosen, other 40s - DoK, Zealot, SH, WE, BG, BO
Destro - Mostly Harmless
Tangler and alts - 8X IB, other 40s - RP, SM
Order - Most dishonorable

Broodling
Posts: 9

Re: DPS Zealot today...

Post#10 » Mon Oct 10, 2022 11:22 pm

I would love to see some kind of love to DPS RP/Zealot!!! i have been thinking a good deal about what they could do to help it without making it getting out of hand. but i dont know enough of the backend on how things work/scale to really put out many ideas. being able to spec some kind of finishing instant cast would be a real nice start. I think adding some kind of damage boost to glowy hands when active and not just stat swapping and less chance to be disruped (if they added this i would think they would have to nurf down some of the AOE skills slightly to not make the already preaty strong AOE ungodly). Those where a few things i was thinking... again not sure if they are good ideas without knowing the backend of things but they are ideas none the less.

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