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Why exactly is Shadow Warrior considered bad?

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Martok
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Re: Why exactly is Shadow Warrior considered bad?

Post#11 » Wed Oct 05, 2022 5:17 am

Asch126 wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 3:27 pmI've seen this mentioned a lot, with no actual reason given outside of "many unskilled players use them", which obviously ain't a reason.

True. It Isn't.

But whatever man because one could come here and tout the virtues of playing a Shadow Warrior and how fun it can be and some portion of the player base will roll their eyes and groan or one could come here and say Shadow Warriors suck and others would roll their eyes and groan because the worth or worthlessness of the class has nothing to do with the class. He who has an ear, let him hear.

Shadow Warriors are like every other class in the game. They are what you make of them. Try it for awhile and if you are having fun then play it and ignore all the eye rolling and groaning because the eye-rollers and groaners are going to eye-roll and groan no matter what.

I am having fun playing my Shadow Warrior and the Everqueen herself told me that was the most important factor. Set up an effective attack rotation (such as the Yamchaa-Approved-Rotation-Of-Doom) and go out and compete.

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BluIzLucky
Posts: 691

Re: Why exactly is Shadow Warrior considered bad?

Post#12 » Wed Oct 05, 2022 6:34 am

Martok wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 5:17 am
Spoiler:
Asch126 wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 3:27 pmI've seen this mentioned a lot, with no actual reason given outside of "many unskilled players use them", which obviously ain't a reason.

True. It Isn't.

But whatever man because one could come here and tout the virtues of playing a Shadow Warrior and how fun it can be and some portion of the player base will roll their eyes and groan or one could come here and say Shadow Warriors suck and others would roll their eyes and groan because the worth or worthlessness of the class has nothing to do with the class. He who has an ear, let him hear.

Shadow Warriors are like every other class in the game. They are what you make of them. Try it for awhile and if you are having fun then play it and ignore all the eye rolling and groaning because the eye-rollers and groaners are going to eye-roll and groan no matter what.

I am having fun playing my Shadow Warrior and the Everqueen herself told me that was the most important factor. Set up an effective attack rotation (such as the Yamchaa-Approved-Rotation-Of-Doom) and go out and compete.

Film at Eleven:


Click here to watch on YouTube

Or, like, whenever you want to watch it...
"Shadow warriors are great, just watch my video for proof!" => video unavailable :lol:
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Lileldys
Posts: 666

Re: Why exactly is Shadow Warrior considered bad?

Post#13 » Wed Oct 05, 2022 7:34 am

lolfesterbomb every 5 seconds but you need to spend&slot 2 tactics to make it worth it, and then the damage was capped long ago cause "no counterplay"

Nerfed Leading Shots, Nerfed Lileaths Arrow, no 100ft skirmish tactic, shoehorned melee spec, yeh, wonder why nobody wants to play this anymore.

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wachlarz
Posts: 798

Re: Why exactly is Shadow Warrior considered bad?

Post#14 » Wed Oct 05, 2022 8:25 am

Aethilmar wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 12:25 am
wachlarz wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 10:48 pm Yes 3k dmg every 5 sec its weak from one skill. But Mara pull make tons of dmg
Awwww...someone's Mara got killed by a SW once. Must have been embarrassing for you to die to a SW.

Honestly the only reason to play SW is to make Destro feel REEEEAAAALLLY bad when they lose to one.

:twisted:
3k dmg Sw make too all targets, because of tac. Mara pull still make 0 dmg. So dont cry about Sw.

Garamore
Posts: 397

Re: Why exactly is Shadow Warrior considered bad?

Post#15 » Wed Oct 05, 2022 8:42 am

Its because melee is more effective at objectives and against a blob. Therefore why take a SW over a slayer/wl. Same with WH/engineers - why take one when slayer/wl combo is so effective. A well played one can be good in small scale or killing people from keep walls but out in the blob they are just taking up a slot from a useful dps.
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Fenris78
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Re: Why exactly is Shadow Warrior considered bad?

Post#16 » Wed Oct 05, 2022 8:50 am

I dunno, wrecking mdps solo with a 1k dps aSW feels soo good, especially since WEs lose to me about 90% of the time, even after opening me with a kd... I just get back, use a pot, shadowstep and then we dance... :p

Skirm aoe is not as good, thus it can deal nice numbers with added crit damage, and perma 45% crit chance from bullseye, while debuffing 15% defenses in zone for allies and kiting the whole time.
Switching ST/AoE is about one tactic set away, you dont even need to respec.

All of that with 850 WS, 1k bal + 1k2 str, 4k armor and 60% parry, without any single renown point into offensive stats (wich mean base zero ctbc, full parry and dd).

Put 3 armor talis, 4 weapon skill and 1 wounds ones and here you go.

Just need 5 warlord + 4 triumphant. Not an easy goal to reach when triumph jewel is 10k crests obviously.
But when you achieve that, you can deal with a wide range of classes solo, and still be a good asset to your team playing in WB, also getting like 60+% of effective damage...


So yes, melee mode lacks spammable aoe (20s cd on the only aoe skill is a bad joke) ans skirmish lacks a bit of punch (thus getting 800+ crits with aoe ranged skills feels good), but I disagree about feeling better with other mdps classes : my assault SW beats my Sov WL by miles when it comes to kill kiting classes, while dealing much more punch in melee. It's even better than my WH when it comes to survival (armor+15% all defenses are a good combo), while getting 13% dodge/parry strikethrough wich I cannot have on WH unless equipping invader set instead of Sov.

And in the end I dont rely on one defensive skill (Repel Blasphemy) or unreliable pet (that can be detaunted by mdps, cutting about 12% of my dps every fight), and far much harder to counter or kite (since the SW can still attack and snare from a distance, while constant debuff heal).
A healer bumping me will not make me uneffective, unlike WL/WH wich are hard-countered (you cant do anything while not in melee range). A mdps cannot escape that easily (shadowstep for speed buff, double snare, ranged attacks to 100 ft to finish them). I can jump into backlines like a WL, ignoring bodyblock and snares, with increased defenses on top, to wreck healers thanks to perma-debuffheal and high sustained dps + kd.

Cherry on the cake, I still can enjoy funnels while attacking from a relatively safe 65ft away, providing mass 15% debuff to block/parry/dodge (and a 8% crit buff to my party). What can you do with a WL/WH in these situations, saving bypassing posterns or waiting for WEs to sneak in ?

Sure, SW is hard to play and master, but in good hands it just can be devastating (solo), while being very survivable (armor, defenses and backdash) so it wont require babysitting, with good kiting tools, group buffs and aoe debuffs...
Yes you wont kill especially much in ranged builds, but man, you can beat most mdps nearly bare-handed with a properly played assault build, and pack an big punch to a healer backline as well.
WL or WH dont have a fraction of the SW polyvalence, at least to my 80+ full sov experience to date with all these classes.
They are good specialized classes, but not as polyvalent and enjoyable as the aSW build I play, by far. Too much counters to pure mdps around (shamans especially).

Garamore
Posts: 397

Re: Why exactly is Shadow Warrior considered bad?

Post#17 » Wed Oct 05, 2022 9:03 am

You are talking small scale i.e 1v1 or hitting from range where it does really well. Out in the blob or capping flags is where it falls down (much the same as any range) hence why people say they are bad.
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Morradin
Posts: 218

Re: Why exactly is Shadow Warrior considered bad?

Post#18 » Wed Oct 05, 2022 9:45 am

SW used to be the most fun class to play on Order. You could customize to your game play and have fun. On live a skirmish or scout SW could toe to toe with a Mara, or even a BG. In reckoning SW rarely do decent damage.

Now you have to wait till you are full Sov/Triumph gear. And I am sure destro crying will have that nerfed as well soon enough, and another buff added to squig herder. It is the way of this game.

You want an excellent archer in WAR? Play Squig Herder.

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Lileldys
Posts: 666

Re: Why exactly is Shadow Warrior considered bad?

Post#19 » Wed Oct 05, 2022 10:07 am

Fenris78 wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 8:50 am
All of that with 850 WS, 1k bal + 1k2 str, 4k armor and 60% parry, without any single renown point into offensive stats (wich mean base zero ctbc, full parry and dd).

Put 3 armor talis, 4 weapon skill and 1 wounds ones and here you go.

Just need 5 warlord + 4 triumphant. Not an easy goal to reach when triumph jewel is 10k crests obviously.
But when you achieve that, you can deal with a wide range of classes solo, and still be a good asset to your team playing in WB, also getting like 60+% of effective damage...


So yes, melee mode lacks spammable aoe (20s cd on the only aoe skill is a bad joke) ans skirmish lacks a bit of punch (thus getting 800+ crits with aoe ranged skills feels good), but I disagree about feeling better with other mdps classes : my assault SW beats my Sov WL by miles when it comes to kill kiting classes, while dealing much more punch in melee. It's even better than my WH when it comes to survival (armor+15% all defenses are a good combo), while getting 13% dodge/parry strikethrough wich I cannot have on WH unless equipping invader set instead of Sov.

And in the end I dont rely on one defensive skill (Repel Blasphemy) or unreliable pet (that can be detaunted by mdps, cutting about 12% of my dps every fight), and far much harder to counter or kite (since the SW can still attack and snare from a distance, while constant debuff heal).
A healer bumping me will not make me uneffective, unlike WL/WH wich are hard-countered (you cant do anything while not in melee range). A mdps cannot escape that easily (shadowstep for speed buff, double snare, ranged attacks to 100 ft to finish them). I can jump into backlines like a WL, ignoring bodyblock and snares, with increased defenses on top, to wreck healers thanks to perma-debuffheal and high sustained dps + kd.

Cherry on the cake, I still can enjoy funnels while attacking from a relatively safe 65ft away, providing mass 15% debuff to block/parry/dodge (and a 8% crit buff to my party). What can you do with a WL/WH in these situations, saving bypassing posterns or waiting for WEs to sneak in ?
This is why I think its shoehorned. Why take a SL/WH over ASW+WL in a melee train grp? You get solid DPS without the downsides of WH Light Amrour and SL Rage Mechanic crutch. Maybe SL/WH DPS is higher but that's not quite relevant in 6v6bruh when I was last playing.

Sofong
Posts: 554

Re: Why exactly is Shadow Warrior considered bad?

Post#20 » Wed Oct 05, 2022 10:09 am

its not bad just outshined by other rdps.

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