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Witch Elf solo roam

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lumpi33
Posts: 422

Re: Witch Elf solo roam

Post#31 » Sun Oct 16, 2022 7:40 pm

inoeth wrote: Sun Oct 16, 2022 7:27 pm we can sustain low dmg, if you burst the we, it dies like everyone else.

like 2+ wh can easily kill you in a kd.
well running away is not exactly winning afight vs several opponents...

we is only strong if the fights last long enough so the passive regen makes an impact, if the fights are quick, 7k we health are gone fast.

good thing is there are noch too many good players out there.

ah and btw every class that ignores alot of armor is really tough as we, like slayers, wl, wh, am.


oh and lumpi=lol
ok, and you are totally not a WE defending your class. viewtopic.php?p=519374#p519374

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nocturnalguest
Posts: 490

Re: Witch Elf solo roam

Post#32 » Sun Oct 16, 2022 7:42 pm

lumpi33 wrote: Sun Oct 16, 2022 6:23 pm Weren't you the one saying that absorbs have no influence on crits? Alright mate, better learn the mechanics first before telling others that they are not experienced enough.
You are too stubborn and just dont listen what people are telling you. Plus clear reading problems.
I hope not a lost case tho.
I do clearly know how this part of code is looking like and would have never suggest some wild crap like you did. I suggest you use search function on forum and figure it yourself. You are not looking dumb. Just unexperienced in game.

lumpi33
Posts: 422

Re: Witch Elf solo roam

Post#33 » Sun Oct 16, 2022 7:58 pm

nocturnalguest wrote: Sun Oct 16, 2022 7:42 pm
lumpi33 wrote: Sun Oct 16, 2022 6:23 pm Weren't you the one saying that absorbs have no influence on crits? Alright mate, better learn the mechanics first before telling others that they are not experienced enough.
I do clearly know how this part of code is looking like and would have never suggest some wild crap like you did. I suggest you use search function on forum and figure it yourself. You are not looking dumb. Just unexperienced in game.
Well, you are wrong. It's common knowledge. Unless they have changed it recently it does have an impact on crits.
viewtopic.php?t=37144&start=10#p404161
https://returnofreckoning.com/forum/vie ... 1&p=492238
You are welcome.

nocturnalguest
Posts: 490

Re: Witch Elf solo roam

Post#34 » Sun Oct 16, 2022 8:04 pm

lumpi33 wrote: Sun Oct 16, 2022 7:58 pm Well, you are wrong. It's common knowledge. Unless they have changed it recently it does have an impact on crits.
viewtopic.php?t=37144&start=10#p404161
https://returnofreckoning.com/forum/vie ... 1&p=492238
You are welcome.
First link is incorrect.
Second link fenris is right.
And now reread what you wrote yourself:
"Id start with nerfing that no crit vs absorbs mechanic. Crits matter a lot when it comes to damage. When you crit less you do less damage. When aborbs are up you don't crit and your damage gets absorbed. With RP/Zealot, SM/BG, WP/DOK and all the self absorbs there are tons of absorbs where you can't crit. That non crit on absorb mechanic needs to go."
You are technically wrong. Absorb doesnt prevent crits from happening. "When absorbs are up you dont crit" is bullshit and plain false.
You are welcome.

lumpi33
Posts: 422

Re: Witch Elf solo roam

Post#35 » Sun Oct 16, 2022 8:13 pm

nocturnalguest wrote: Sun Oct 16, 2022 8:04 pm
lumpi33 wrote: Sun Oct 16, 2022 7:58 pm Well, you are wrong. It's common knowledge. Unless they have changed it recently it does have an impact on crits.
viewtopic.php?t=37144&start=10#p404161
https://returnofreckoning.com/forum/vie ... 1&p=492238
You are welcome.
First link is incorrect.
Second link fenris is right.
And now reread what you wrote yourself:
"Id start with nerfing that no crit vs absorbs mechanic. Crits matter a lot when it comes to damage. When you crit less you do less damage. When aborbs are up you don't crit and your damage gets absorbed. With RP/Zealot, SM/BG, WP/DOK and all the self absorbs there are tons of absorbs where you can't crit. That non crit on absorb mechanic needs to go."
You are technically wrong. Absorb doesnt prevent crits from happening. "When absorbs are up you dont crit" is bullshit and plain false.
You are welcome.
It was a simplification.

Point is: Absorbs do have an impact on crit damage. Period. That's what I was talking about.

"Toughness and absorb are efficient by reducing the damage part wich will crit, but will not completely avoid critical hits unless you absorb the whole damage (where the remaining damage is zero, thus cannot crit)..."

Stop being so toxic.

nocturnalguest
Posts: 490

Re: Witch Elf solo roam

Post#36 » Sun Oct 16, 2022 8:30 pm

Im not toxic. And even not saltier than you.
e.g. one can just look up your answer to inoeth while beside everything, he's technically correct about defWE, they just die like everything else if caught by proper opponents or decent groups.
your claims about them being too OP are also false, they are far from that even in solo roaming mode. Like mdpv said there are much stronger classes.
I could have understood if someone would raise a question of how easy to play in such builds early on (starting from domi actually) and be incredibly efficient. But claiming them OP, mixing everything in one bowl like you did is not a good way to have proper discussion.

Basically all this video is about was pretty much summed up by
Sulorie wrote: Sun Oct 16, 2022 12:47 pm He meant the enemies did so many things wrong, that it's not even funny. Most didn't even use potions. The video is a masterpiece of exploiting any mistake the enemy does in order to dominate against all odds.
I wouldnt say it better.

I'd say that you should pick your words better, as most of what you write (from what i saw recently) makes very little sense.

P.S. regarding absorb topic - how am i supposed to figure such "simplifications"? you said what you said, dont twist it now so easy. assuming you knew the exact mechanic, what the hell did make you think the core problem is absorb position in a formula? previously it was after toughness actually and some could clearly consider it a problem (thats actually debatable tho) to justify general toughness nerf, but you came out with that suggestion out of the blue in a thread with pug statistics. /shrug

lumpi33
Posts: 422

Re: Witch Elf solo roam

Post#37 » Sun Oct 16, 2022 9:19 pm

nocturnalguest wrote: Sun Oct 16, 2022 8:30 pm Im not toxic. And even not saltier than you.
e.g. one can just look up your answer to inoeth while beside everything, he's technically correct about defWE, they just die like everything else if caught by proper opponents or decent groups.
your claims about them being too OP are also false, they are far from that even in solo roaming mode. Like mdpv said there are much stronger classes.
I could have understood if someone would raise a question of how easy to play in such builds early on (starting from domi actually) and be incredibly efficient. But claiming them OP, mixing everything in one bowl like you did is not a good way to have proper discussion.

Basically all this video is about was pretty much summed up by
Sulorie wrote: Sun Oct 16, 2022 12:47 pm He meant the enemies did so many things wrong, that it's not even funny. Most didn't even use potions. The video is a masterpiece of exploiting any mistake the enemy does in order to dominate against all odds.
I wouldnt say it better.
Again, that's your personal opinion. You seem to not accept others. WE/WH is without a doubt a very strong class. People have shown that over and over again, in videos, in cities, in ranked solo, in various situations. I've played with them and against then. I know what they can do. Basically everybody does who pays attention to them. It's not the first time they do that kind of overbuffing to a class.

It is also the sheer amount of stealthers that are running around that are a clear indicator for a class being powerful, probably too powerful. Same with slayers and choppas.

Whoever knows Sulorie knows that he/she is always trying to argue against changes and wants to keep the status quo as is. Im not a fan of that. No other MMO does that. Everybody knows how hard it is to balance these kind of games and there can't be real balance because of too many factors. BUT, what you can do is change things from time to time when it becomes obvious that things are off. Im very sure that Im not the only one thinking that some classes outshine others by a great extend. Same with lacking classes. That's just not good in my opinion. We are in that status quo for too long already.
nocturnalguest wrote: Sun Oct 16, 2022 8:30 pm I'd say that you should pick your words better, as most of what you write (from what i saw recently) makes very little sense.

P.S. regarding absorb topic - how am i supposed to figure such "simplifications"? you said what you said, dont twist it now so easy. assuming you knew the exact mechanic, what the hell did make you think the core problem is absorb position in a formula? previously it was after toughness actually and some could clearly consider it a problem (thats actually debatable tho) to justify general toughness nerf, but you came out with that suggestion out of the blue in a thread with pug statistics. /shrug
I could say the same about your posts. You can post your opinion, I post mine. That's it. Like it or not.

Regarding absorbs. I do think that there are too many absorbs around and that they do eat too much of the damage and crit damage. While the impact is pretty small in large scale, it is very noticable in smaller scale like 1:1, smaller fights or SCs. Right in the areas where your amount of dps is limited these absorbs are performing the best, making targets harder to kill. Add all the other defensive stuff and you got very hard to kill targets. So the idea was to at least nerf that crit reduction mechanic of absorbs before touching other stuff. There are for sure other ways to nerf survivability. It's just one suggestion or idea. Nothing more, nothing less. You can argue why you don't think that it is a good idea instead of posting stuff that basically translates to "you don't know what you are talking about" without explanation. That's kinda rude. Maybe you should pick your words better ;)

Sulorie
Posts: 7219

Re: Witch Elf solo roam

Post#38 » Sun Oct 16, 2022 9:34 pm

lumpi33 wrote: Sun Oct 16, 2022 9:19 pm ...
Whoever knows Sulorie knows that he/she is always trying to argue against changes and wants to keep the status quo as is. Im not a fan of that.
...
I am no fan of people arguing like you, who call something OP, when they don't even understand what is happening (e.g. in some video) or why a certain class is actually able to kill multiple opponents.
No matter what class, when you encounter multiple people at once, who know what they do, you are not going to do all those tricks.
Not all classes are suited equally for 1vs1 but when you add more people to the equation the balance shifts against you, no matter how good you are unless those additional players are inexperienced.
If you took the time to analyze what is actually happening on the screen, you wouldn't make those baseless contributions.
Dying is no option.

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lumpi33
Posts: 422

Re: Witch Elf solo roam

Post#39 » Sun Oct 16, 2022 9:57 pm

Sulorie wrote: Sun Oct 16, 2022 9:34 pm
lumpi33 wrote: Sun Oct 16, 2022 9:19 pm ...
Whoever knows Sulorie knows that he/she is always trying to argue against changes and wants to keep the status quo as is. Im not a fan of that.
...
I am no fan of people arguing like you, who call something OP, when they don't even understand what is happening (e.g. in some video) or why a certain class is actually able to kill multiple opponents.
No matter what class, when you encounter multiple people at once, who know what they do, you are not going to do all those tricks.
Not all classes are suited equally for 1vs1 but when you add more people to the equation the balance shifts against you, no matter how good you are unless those additional players are inexperienced.
If you took the time to analyze what is actually happening on the screen, you wouldn't make those baseless contributions.
Im sorry but that is exactly the kind of response I expected. Trying to discredit me, saying I don't understood what I was seeing and so on.

I guess you are the only one out there understanding RoR. I guess everything is fine with stealthers, or slayers/choppas or shamans then.

It's a coincidence that everybody is rolling them. My bad. Nothing to see here. Move on.

nocturnalguest
Posts: 490

Re: Witch Elf solo roam

Post#40 » Sun Oct 16, 2022 10:07 pm

Not like im zealous not accepting others opinion, its just that its hard for me to understand from where are you coming from with those statements as i feel crucial context is lacking.
In regards to WE/WH since past year there are alot of threads with big discussions. Opinions differ. And like was mentioned game modes do have their own balance.
So WE/WH being strong as a roamer (WH being incredibly strong, WE generally considered worse in comparison), strong in st city group, decent in 6v6 (but far from being strongest) while hugely lacking in orvr WB doesnt seems to me as a disaster requiring emergency balance interventions (like you seem to call here).

For me sheer amount of stealthers is not so "clear indicator" of class being too powerful. I can think of oRvR campaign mechanic lacking too much that people dont bother to form strong groups outside primetime but there are still many players who are willing/able to play in off hours but dont want to pug finding such experience as awful (fair enough imo). Thus they pick a suitable class and just roam. Cause roaming was and still (to some extent) is "Fun". Doesnt it explains the sheer amount of stealthers as well? I think it does.

Stupid to argue that there should be no meta shifts at all but howeever consider that there is lacking manpower on a team to tailor really huge game mechanic changes. Its not AAA title to support such and thus somewhat stable state considered as better than a chaos overhaul full of bugs.

> I could say the same about your posts. You can post your opinion, I post mine. That's it. Like it or not.
Yes, you can. However you never answered anything of what i said in specific nor debunk my points. e.g. my engi/magi post you simple ignored telling me i need to prove something, however all the proves are well known to everyone who was part of decent organised guild and (or) joined solid teams in orvr/cities. i told you names of people that were doing wonders on those classes. and thats really enough. if not you could just ask for a link or something.
Edit: yeah, and you kinda prove it with your response to Sulorie. You are not arguing, debunking points or whatever. Just type some statements out of the blue (and context). Thats why people react like this

> absorbs
Absorbs is a part of current "time-to-kill" meta. Changing it one needs an aim, a goal. What should this goal be and why? Those questions are not answered, nor you touch them yourself. Its incredibly reckless to touch this fundamental aspect of game simply throwing it out of formula or tweaking it otherwise somehow. It needs very in-depth analysis of consequences. No data currently supports "time-to-kill" counts in any of game modes. Biggest problem is that each game mode having its own balance but change will affect every one of them. Discussions of should TTK be lower or higher are endless and pretty pointless. Dont you understand it?
So im part of community members that think - at first, find a clear stable state, mechanic/abilities bugs should be fixed and only then, then game reaches clear stable state there is a place to figure how meta shakes should be done and what exact goals they should be reaching. And also there are way too much fundamental reworks required than game mechanic - most do believe that making orvr fun again is way more important.

> instead of posting stuff that basically translates to "you don't know what you are talking about" without explanation. That's kinda rude. Maybe you should pick your words better
Fair enough to some extent

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