[SW] needs luv

[Lime]

Assault Shadow is only viable for small scale roaming, hence it is a niche spec with weak AoE damage which dooms it (Sweeping Slash might as well not exist). Skirmish spec is the AoE tree but even fully specced into it remains the weakest of the bunch accross all aoe dps classes in the game, logically a hybrid Assault spec/Skirmish is even worse than that.

So no, Shadow Warriors generally does not perform well in a comparative sense, of course logically with better gear performance increases but the same applies for every single class out there.

Geared ASW is great for 6man, roaming, scenarios, up to 24 man city as a 1 of 24 class and not a class that is stacked. Everyone mocks ASW until you got a geared one on you crit exposing and stealing your initiative and then you get blown up by big elf crit numbers.

[Farrul]

While I anecdotally agree with the rest (from playing with, not as, SW), your example is not really great since you are comparing SW's 20% speed boost with 100% uptime vs a 30% speed proc with at best 50% uptime and ability with 22% uptime.
Maybe you prefer SH's version, but giving SW 30% speed at 100% uptime would just be straight up better.

What you forget to mention is that 100% uptime comes with a strict condition, i.e changing stance and abilities which is a big deal. If 100% uptime was possible without affecting the tool-kit like the SH speed increases does then clearly it would be better, but perhaps you're still right about this tactic considering this also comes with AP reduction but the main problem i pointed out still remains:

SW will not match the kiting potential of SH, it moves slower and hence more easy to catch and kill and this is the lifeblood of these specs, it does not have the burst of a sorc or the endurance of an engineer to stay stationary and hence the ability to kite should never be compromised by anything. So it's not about a preference but a performance advantage that SH has when kiting in ''bow'' spec. The difference between 20% and 30% might not look that much but it is actually huge when trying to create distance from a target.

[Farrul]

Geared ASW is great for 6man, roaming, scenarios, up to 24 man city as a 1 of 24 class and not a class that is stacked. Everyone mocks ASW until you got a geared one on you crit exposing and stealing your initiative and then you get blown up by big elf crit numbers.

Why i stated ''small scale'' (solo up to a 6 man group) but it does not have any place in an AoE dps meta without any real damage potential in AoE, the real Order dps classes are Slayer, WL, BW in that order. This limits Assault as to what you describe ''1 out of 24 ''(we all know the routine, WW swordmaster supported city group with your v.i.p seat in the guild ). That would actually be totally fine since not every spec needs to be good at everything but the issue here is that Scout/Skirmish are in an even worse condition, hence why i generally can't think of a worse dps class in this game.

[Fenris78]

chosen impossible to kite what?
kill any WE what?

either you or your enemies fail completely here wtf

Assault SW can kite chosen, provided I can self-jump, then remove their snare with M1, and it's a one-shot. While in the meantie I need at least 2 snares to get them slowed for 10s.

So no, Chosens are not "impossible" to kite, only very hard (and it's generally not possible to kill them either, being SnB or 2H).

About WEs, my aSW got a 9/1 kdr when it comes to 1v1 against WEs, and 80% of the time they open me from stealth.
And no, that' not only sub-40 players.
So, either 90% of WEs I encountered were very bad, or assault spec when well played is actually good against them, make your own opinion...

[Lime]

Geared ASW is great for 6man, roaming, scenarios, up to 24 man city as a 1 of 24 class and not a class that is stacked. Everyone mocks ASW until you got a geared one on you crit exposing and stealing your initiative and then you get blown up by big elf crit numbers.

Why i stated ''small scale'' (solo up to a 6 man group) but it does not have any place in an AoE dps meta without any real damage potential in AoE, the real Order dps classes are Slayer, WL, BW in that order. This limits Assault as to what you describe ''1 out of 24 ''(we all know the routine, WW swordmaster supported city group with your v.i.p seat in the guild ). That would actually be totally fine since not every spec needs to be good at everything but the issue here is that Scout/Skirmish are in an even worse condition, hence why i generally can't think of a worse dps class in this game.

I mostly agree with you and I think most people agree that Slayer, WL and BW form the core of order warband setups and are therefore more desirable. The ASW class is great for small scale but falls into a niche use for warband play like AM, Engi, WH, and other 1 or 2 of less desireable classes.

But these classes also have major downsides just like the ASW being unwanted in warband play in that slayer is very squishy with rage and needs alot of support/babysitting to be able to deal the crazy aoe damage, WL has a pet that can be killed/leached off and is unhealable to focus fire as well as having single target neutered without pet and BW is very squishy with self harm mechanic and basically unplayable without strong healers and a guard and is mostly nonviable for 6v6 organized play at the higher levels of play.

I think the classes having major weaknesses is a core part of the game and in part what makes the classes interesting.

[inoeth]

chosen impossible to kite what?
kill any WE what?

either you or your enemies fail completely here wtf

Assault SW can kite chosen, provided I can self-jump, then remove their snare with M1, and it's a one-shot. While in the meantie I need at least 2 snares to get them slowed for 10s.

So no, Chosens are not "impossible" to kite, only very hard (and it's generally not possible to kill them either, being SnB or 2H).

About WEs, my aSW got a 9/1 kdr when it comes to 1v1 against WEs, and 80% of the time they open me from stealth.
And no, that' not only sub-40 players.
So, either 90% of WEs I encountered were very bad, or assault spec when well played is actually good against them, make your own opinion...

you never let chosen snare you just perma snare them and they cant do nothing.
yeah 99% WE players are probably very bad

[inoeth]

double post

[Lileldys]

To give you a clear example of poor balancing and lack of dev attention to this class, Squiq Run Away is set at 30% movement speed buff, it has another passive tactic set at 30% run increase, yet for some reasom SW guerilla training(which is clunky to utilize well) is set at 20% movement speed, hell the generic ''Flee'' ability is set at 30% as well, incomprehensible how this can be set at 20% on a squishy ranged spec that is supposed to be ''mobile''.

...

While I anecdotally agree with the rest (from playing with, not as, SW), your example is not really great since you are comparing SW's 20% speed boost with 100% uptime vs a 30% speed proc with at best 50% uptime and ability with 22% uptime.
Maybe you prefer SH's version, but giving SW 30% speed at 100% uptime would just be straight up better.

100% uptime in theory, but you're cooked if you think that its viable.

20% is good for pre-kiting, but trash if you get caught. With the 50% charge from MDPS, or flee + AP Pot, you're going to still be at a speed disadvantage. This is especially more noticable since the reduction to range of key abilities in Skirmish. Most of your kite DPS is from Skirmish so you'll probably camp it, you could swap assault but then you'll lose DoTs+AA and if you swap scout you loose SFA+AA

Plus, with SH, if you get hit by an MDPS, lets say they hit twice with AA + Skill, thats 3 hits, 3 chances to proc your tactic, thats a very good chance to proc.


I'm not a 1v1 Enjoyer, but a group player, and the gutting of the range on mobile SW, and leading shots nerf ages ago, makes it hard to consider over engineer's utility when the damage is the same, and engi can keep 100 distance. Engi provides pierece defences if needed and the +15% damage from Signal Flare is nice for BW/WL nukes. Engi also gets landmines, punts and K/D turrets to help kite while SW provides a single target K/D and Snare?

[Grranimal]

One reason it feels like Whirling Pin is "parried" is due to the animation time. The backwards leap doesn't happen until after the animation completes, which gives tanks and others a chance to interrupt. Squigherder leap happens before the big green splash animation so it's shear luck when it gets interrupted.

[Raddaquin]

Can we mention Shadowstep and how awkward it is?