Basic Consensus For SW Fixes?

[Avernus]

I think they assembled a group of dedicated people that would look into/handle class balance, but except for bug fixes(which of course is a good thing) we haven't seen anything impactful in a long while, so yes the status quo is real unfortunately, hopefully something will happen.

I do hope that this "dedicated people" are not the same who did THIS to SW. The one who did this to skirmish SW is clearly working for destro. Still, it's hard to wait - as far as i know devs are busy doing new ability system and there is no guarentee that they even agree that SW is the worst dps class at the moment and needs some work.

[Arthem]

I wouldn't. Would you?

Originally rKD was a 65ft skill to match most skirmish skills. It was moved to scout, got increased range with the drawback of being static. You want to make it more mobile again but keep the range, this doesn't seem balanced to me for such a powerful skill.

If you want to talk about original eye shot it was rKD on the move 100 feet. They nerfed the range of all skirmish when they 'fixed' the class which made it terrible. OP solution would solve some of the problems they introduced to the class.

[Arthem]

All this suggestions are pointles if devs dont see a problem.

I doubt they would as they never reversed the GCD nerfs so how are they going to see problems on a specific class?

[Arthem]

Do you realize you’re basically asking for the class to be reverted to the way it was before the most recent round of significant changes (sans the BHA stacking nerf, which was subsequent)? Yea, I’m sure the devs are gonna just undo what they recently did…

Does the class need some help? Yes. It doesn’t have the damage, ST or AOE, of the other rDPS classes, but it has just as poor survivability (apart from very high reknown, end-game gear aSW). Personally I’d rather it NOT have the damage of say a BW, since it’s a “hybrid” class, but then it should have better survivability (even so, a little damage boost would be good). There are two ways that can happen - active abilities or passive mitigation. I argue for passive mitigation (e.g., make it medium armor at base and some other related tweaks) because active abilities require more development time and resources.

So, instead of asking for “the good old days”, look at the current shortcomings and suggest things that seems to be within the framework the devs currently have in mind.

But yea, ain’t nothin gonna happen if the devs don’t care/don’t think it’s needed.

Its way easier to just ask them to undo a problem they introduced than ask them to come up with a new solution.

[Sulorie]

I wouldn't. Would you?

Originally rKD was a 65ft skill to match most skirmish skills. It was moved to scout, got increased range with the drawback of being static. You want to make it more mobile again but keep the range, this doesn't seem balanced to me for such a powerful skill.

If you want to talk about original eye shot it was rKD on the move 100 feet. They nerfed the range of all skirmish when they 'fixed' the class which made it terrible. OP solution would solve some of the problems they introduced to the class.

What fix you mean? Back then you had 98ft range with tactic. Was it 100ft without tactic at any time?

[Farrul]

there is no guarentee that they even agree that SW is the worst dps class at the moment and needs some work.

Depends how they define ''worst dps''. I mean if you only look at pure damage done(numbers) a Scout SW won't be worse singletarget dps than a SH (although because of added pet damage i believe SH will do slightly more burst with CD and it is definitely more consistent dps - not having to rely upon VoN). In a packed funnel a Skirmish SW might do ''ok'' dps although still lower than engineer and of course BW with less range than both.

So the real problem of the class is in practice and SW is clunky in mechanic and does not have a developed archer survival tool-kit like the Squig herder(who is therefore more self- sufficient and effective to play )

At the same time this class is advertised as having mobility as strength and therefore justifying lower dps, this is precisely why it is underpowered, likewise this is where development so far has failed to correct the class.

The ''mobility'' is not adequate for a class that is supposed to be good at it, in reality skirmish 65ft range is something of a joke in a world of melee meta classes and destruction being the faction with insane CC/Pulls, everyone knows this is a joke but the status quo for some reason persists? Not sure what more to add.

This is why constructive feedback is important so that players that understand the limitations and like to play the class can explain the logic to those who are able to make changes(assuming these threads are being watched, nothing is certain) otherwise it might never be realized as a problem because again from just numbers ''SW'' will still get kills, right? (sigh).

Hence why the suggestions made by the OP all make sense and why some other suggestions in here are decent as well, they seek to improve the aspect of the class that it is supposed to be good at.

[Avernus]

What fix you mean? Back then you had 98ft range with tactic. Was it 100ft without tactic at any time?

Yes, bring back the tactic. Return the old BHA arrow damage if it was nerfed (as far as i can tell from the discussions - it was nerfed). Return the old Eye shot. Basically - get all this "improvements" away. Tactic for ignoring 25% armor is okay but if i have to pick 1 tactic this tactic would be old +50% range.

[Avernus]

1. Depends how they define ''worst dps''. I mean if you only look at pure damage done(numbers) a Scout SW won't be worse singletarget dps than a SH (although because of added pet damage i believe SH will do slightly more burst with CD and it is definitely more consistent dps - not having to rely upon VoN). In a packed funnel a Skirmish SW might do ''ok'' dps although still lower than engineer and of course BW with less range than both.

2. So the real problem of the class is in practice and SW is clunky in mechanic and does not have a developed archer survival tool-kit like the Squig herder(who is therefore more self- sufficient and effective to play )

3. At the same time this class is advertised as having mobility as strength and therefore justifying lower dps, this is precisely why it is underpowered, likewise this is where development so far has failed to correct the class.

4. The ''mobility'' is not adequate for a class that is supposed to be good at it, in reality skirmish 65ft range is something of a joke in a world of melee meta classes and destruction being the faction with insane CC/Pulls, everyone knows this is a joke but the status quo for some reason persists? Not sure what more to add.

5. This is why constructive feedback is important so that players that understand the limitations and like to play the class can explain the logic to those who are able to make changes(assuming these threads are being watched, nothing is certain) otherwise it might never be realized as a problem because again from just numbers ''SW'' will still get kills, right? (sigh).

6. Hence why the suggestions made by the OP all make sense and why some other suggestions in here are decent as well, they seek to improve the aspect of the class that it is supposed to be good at.

1. Big shootin SH? Quck shootin SH? Yeah scout SW is okay as dps...if your enemy is ignoring you completely. You can't outdamage anyone except for, maybe, SH.
And skirmish SW isn't 100% AoE spec it was mobile dps. Now it's damage was crippled (you didn't even mentioned it talking about single-target damage - and for a reason). True skirmish AoE it's No respite+Lileath spam. And you can't do this anymore without WW (BIG TY all aoe dps just laghing off at this "brilliant" idea). No, AoE spiral arrow was trash, is trash, and ,probably, still will be a trash - now with opportunity to use BHA aoe (perfect reason to nerf its damage and forbid to use it while in assault stance).

But yes, scout isn't that good but at least its more or less "okay".

2. I don't think its the only problem but yes, the lack of survival kit is painful.

3. They didn't fail to correct the class. They broke it (i'm talking about skirmish. It was working quite good but deleting M2 (your way to deal damage comparable to top dps) and "improving" (nerfing) your kit was the thing).

I do think that old skirmish SW with current steady aim (that is the only good thing that comes to my mind) and 25% armor ignore (fine thing too but i doubt that even if we get the 100ft back we could afford it - no free tactic slot for that - assuming that 100ft (98ft whatever) comes with tactic).

But here i am trying to kill my target with AoE abilities because my ST abilities are worse than AoE and faster to cast (on cooldown though...). Facepalm.

4. Can't add anything actually - it's all completely true. Could do the facepalm second time i guess.

5. Yes. Third facepalm included.

6. I do hope that this will happen. But how long all this "ability system" rework is gonna be in work? I wish they would at least throw us a bone or something.

[Deadpoet]

I might be a little naive, but I don't think that the current developing team doesn't want to fix/doesn't care about the state of SW. It's more likely that, besides the deeper, more in the background work on ability system, the remaining time and workforce is devoted right now to tasks that are considered more important to ensure the fragile survival of the game, such as events and new content, rather than to dealing with issues that inevitably entail subsequent controversy, loud and unkind disapproval and indignation at perceived unfairness in comparison, as any changes affecting class abilities are sure to trigger in some percentage of the game's population. However, that shouldn't stop us from expressing our opinion and sharing our ideas. This is a forum after all, and who knows?

[dtjror]

I might be a little naive, but I don't think that the current developing team doesn't want to fix/doesn't care about the state of SW. It's more likely that, besides the deeper, more in the background work on ability system, the remaining time and workforce is devoted right now to tasks that are considered more important to ensure the fragile survival of the game, such as events and new content, rather than to dealing with issues that inevitably entail subsequent controversy, loud and unkind disapproval and indignation at perceived unfairness in comparison, as any changes affecting class abilities are sure to trigger in some percentage of the game's population. However, that shouldn't stop us from expressing our opinion and sharing our ideas. This is a forum after all, and who knows?

One would think that fixing the lack of large-scale PVP in a game that supposedly has that at its core would be the highest priority. But instead we get pie events. *shrug*