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[WL] Fort Weapon

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Darkdargor
Posts: 33

Re: [WL] Fort Weapon

Post#21 » Fri Dec 02, 2022 10:44 am

Quite sure is 25%.

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Sinisterror
Posts: 838

Re: [WL] Fort Weapon

Post#22 » Fri Dec 02, 2022 11:47 am

Fenris78 wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 9:45 am
SepticDisaster wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 7:47 am Choppa 2h has that proc, I think it’s the only one on destro. IB fort 2h has it, BG 2h does not /sadface
Chraceaxe of the Subjugator (WL)
Fortress Chraceaxe (WL)
Juvenile (WL)
Sledge of the Subjugator (WP)
Fortress Greathammer (WP)
Fortress Trollspliter (IB/Slayer)
Bigchoppa of the Subjugator (Choppa)

Even so there is only one Destru weapon :
- Chosen aura is 25% INCOMING heals, meaning everyone, while KotBS one is OUTGOING, meaning only debuffing healers in range (and good luck getting to healers through tanks and mdps that can perma-AoE CC/snare you).
That's a vast difference, even tho Chosen aura wont stack with other incoming HD.

Akalukz wrote: Thu Dec 01, 2022 7:40 pm If only the game was single-target oriented I would agree, but the biggest issue with the game right now is WB v WB or larger scale. 10 sec 25% AoE Incoming heal debuff on 24 people is pretty significant. 99% of WL in a wb are AoE spec. Look how quickly the DoK aoe heal debuff was nerfed.
- Even tho any could theorically hit up to 24 ppl in range with this proc (it's about a wb packing tight all around you doing nothing to CC or kill you), you will in theory debuff up to 2-3 players each time, wich is not much, and random.
On average, 25 ft AoE should hit about 5-6 people max around you (or in front of you for cones), 10 at best if tightly packed, wich means AT BEST about one player debuffed by the proc per attack.
And that's not counting block/parry from overstacked Destro tanks and mdps, wich mean in practice proc will be even lower.

So please, dont imply "you could debuff 24 players at once", wich in theory would only happen in a world where the whole warband is packed in a single spot, doing nothing and facing backyards the WL ; and then again, it would require an average or 15 seconds (10 attacks) to have a slight probability of debuffing half the wb at once (debuff could proc multiple times on same targets, wich means debuffing 24 players at once is technically impossible unless your proc is 25% or more).


TLDR : a 10% proc chance on 30ft AoE will likely not debuff more than 2 players (at best), wich I dont think it could be considered as OP by anyone from good faith... ;)
Only thing that matters in this post is that there is 1 wpn with this proc on destro and 7! on order and for 4 different classes. Makes no sense.
Last edited by Sinisterror on Fri Dec 02, 2022 3:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"To clarify, me asking to developers to go test their own changes is not sign of toxicity or anger, but a sign of hope that the people punching in the numbers remain aware of potential consequences and test their own changes"-Teefz

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Lithenir
Posts: 370

Re: [WL] Fort Weapon

Post#23 » Fri Dec 02, 2022 12:02 pm

Sinisterror wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 11:47 am Only thing that matters in this post is that there is 1 wpn with this proc on destro and 7! on order and for 4 different classes. Makes no sense.
If that is all that matters then pls take all 3 WL weapons and give it to random destro classes. In exchange change WL outgoing healdebuff ability to incoming healdebuff ability. Would make me pretty happy and the weapon proc is distributed 4 to 4.
And change Knight outgoing healdebuff aura to incoming healdebuff aura to match Chosen. Because the way it is makes no sense, right?

But I guess destro crybabies wouldn't be happy about this either.


On a more non-sarcastic note: The Realms aren't mirrored and that's a good thing in my eyes. Keeps the game interesting and less boring, also more lore friendly.
So in case that this proc seems to be distributed unfair. Maybe it is this way because destro simply has "an advantage" because of the chosen aura and these weapons are simply to even the field. But to see it, requires the ability to think through all instances instead of focussing on only one thing

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Akalukz
Posts: 1587

Re: [WL] Fort Weapon

Post#24 » Fri Dec 02, 2022 12:20 pm

If it wasn't a big deal no one would be campaigning to keep it out of Destro's hands. 100% on order ask what best weapon for WL is for RvR. People will say fort weapon for heal debuff. I know I have a high RR WL. It's an imbalance no matter how you look at it. Maybe they should just move it to slayer 2 hand only. Would be fitting.
-= Agony =-

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Lithenir
Posts: 370

Re: [WL] Fort Weapon

Post#25 » Fri Dec 02, 2022 12:24 pm

Ofc it is fort weapon for WL. If WL would have incoming HD as ability no one would bat an eye for fort weapon

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Akalukz
Posts: 1587

Re: [WL] Fort Weapon

Post#26 » Fri Dec 02, 2022 12:26 pm

Lithenir wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 12:24 pm Ofc it is fort weapon for WL. If WL would have incoming HD as ability no one would bat an eye for fort weapon
Thank you, now how many Destro have incoming HD on AoE?
-= Agony =-

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Sinisterror
Posts: 838

Re: [WL] Fort Weapon

Post#27 » Fri Dec 02, 2022 12:28 pm

Lithenir wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 12:02 pm
Sinisterror wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 11:47 am Only thing that matters in this post is that there is 1 wpn with this proc on destro and 7! on order and for 4 different classes. Makes no sense.
If that is all that matters then pls take all 3 WL weapons and give it to random destro classes. In exchange change WL outgoing healdebuff ability to incoming healdebuff ability. Would make me pretty happy and the weapon proc is distributed 4 to 4.
And change Knight outgoing healdebuff aura to incoming healdebuff aura to match Chosen. Because the way it is makes no sense, right?

But I guess destro crybabies wouldn't be happy about this either.


On a more non-sarcastic note: The Realms aren't mirrored and that's a good thing in my eyes. Keeps the game interesting and less boring, also more lore friendly.
So in case that this proc seems to be distributed unfair. Maybe it is this way because destro simply has "an advantage" because of the chosen aura and these weapons are simply to even the field. But to see it, requires the ability to think through all instances instead of focussing on only one thing
Never considered myself as destro crybaby since i play both realms and at the stage WL is atm i definetely agree to change outgoing HD to Incoming and make it 9 pts ability instead of 13. If LF would be able to crit like it used to and should be able to crit. If Pounce Worked in Mid-air, able to crit and with 1 sec delayed dmg like it used to (when you pounced to enemy AA dmg came before pounce dmg so CS would hit at the same time with pounce and if first AA and second AA After CS critted = One shotting.

If it all worked like that now WL dont need INC HD but im all for changing WL HD to Incoming. Though WL used to be MOST fun melee in any game ive played so i would rather take critting LF, pounce crits/Mid-air use possible again instead of inc HD. Imo it's insane that LF cant crit since Pet is the crit mechanic for WL and 13 pts petpath ability dont even crit lol.

Anyway all i meant by saying "only thing that matters" was about the Proc itself. I would love all old procs back like WL got 12% + Crit dmg/9% Crit proc in T4 epic quest. As did WP and many others + and tanks got Taunt proc in 2H wpns. I think it's interesting that Devastator/Duelist Conq/Domi and Vanq/Opp have best set bonuses for many classess. Now im missing old Overlord/Imperator set bonuses as well, why all of these great things got removed;/
"To clarify, me asking to developers to go test their own changes is not sign of toxicity or anger, but a sign of hope that the people punching in the numbers remain aware of potential consequences and test their own changes"-Teefz

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Lithenir
Posts: 370

Re: [WL] Fort Weapon

Post#28 » Fri Dec 02, 2022 12:41 pm

Akalukz wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 12:26 pm
Lithenir wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 12:24 pm Ofc it is fort weapon for WL. If WL would have incoming HD as ability no one would bat an eye for fort weapon
Thank you, now how many Destro have incoming HD on AoE?
Quick search: Choppa M4 middle tree and Chosen with aura and therefore 100% uptime ;)

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Lithenir
Posts: 370

Re: [WL] Fort Weapon

Post#29 » Fri Dec 02, 2022 12:46 pm

Sinisterror wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 12:28 pm
Lithenir wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 12:02 pm
Sinisterror wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 11:47 am Only thing that matters in this post is that there is 1 wpn with this proc on destro and 7! on order and for 4 different classes. Makes no sense.
If that is all that matters then pls take all 3 WL weapons and give it to random destro classes. In exchange change WL outgoing healdebuff ability to incoming healdebuff ability. Would make me pretty happy and the weapon proc is distributed 4 to 4.
And change Knight outgoing healdebuff aura to incoming healdebuff aura to match Chosen. Because the way it is makes no sense, right?

But I guess destro crybabies wouldn't be happy about this either.


On a more non-sarcastic note: The Realms aren't mirrored and that's a good thing in my eyes. Keeps the game interesting and less boring, also more lore friendly.
So in case that this proc seems to be distributed unfair. Maybe it is this way because destro simply has "an advantage" because of the chosen aura and these weapons are simply to even the field. But to see it, requires the ability to think through all instances instead of focussing on only one thing
Never considered myself as destro crybaby since i play both realms and at the stage WL is atm i definetely agree to change outgoing HD to Incoming and make it 9 pts ability instead of 13. If LF would be able to crit like it used to and should be able to crit. If Pounce Worked in Mid-air, able to crit and with 1 sec delayed dmg like it used to (when you pounced to enemy AA dmg came before pounce dmg so CS would hit at the same time with pounce and if first AA and second AA After CS critted = One shotting.

If it all worked like that now WL dont need INC HD but im all for changing WL HD to Incoming. Though WL used to be MOST fun melee in any game ive played so i would rather take critting LF, pounce crits/Mid-air use possible again instead of inc HD. Imo it's insane that LF cant crit since Pet is the crit mechanic for WL and 13 pts petpath ability dont even crit lol.

Anyway all i meant by saying "only thing that matters" was about the Proc itself. I would love all old procs back like WL got 12% + Crit dmg/9% Crit proc in T4 epic quest. As did WP and many others + and tanks got Taunt proc in 2H wpns. I think it's interesting that Devastator/Duelist Conq/Domi and Vanq/Opp have best set bonuses for many classess. Now im missing old Overlord/Imperator set bonuses as well, why all of these great things got removed;/
But Leonine Frenzy is a proc why should a proc crit? If LF proc would be made able to crit than every other proc like witchbrew should be able to crit also. And I definitely don't want that :D
I agree that pounce should be able to work mid-air.

My point is simply that these HD procs are in place to compensate for destro abilities to HD

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Akalukz
Posts: 1587

Re: [WL] Fort Weapon

Post#30 » Fri Dec 02, 2022 12:47 pm

Lithenir wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 12:41 pm
Akalukz wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 12:26 pm
Lithenir wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 12:24 pm Ofc it is fort weapon for WL. If WL would have incoming HD as ability no one would bat an eye for fort weapon
Thank you, now how many Destro have incoming HD on AoE?
Quick search: Choppa M4 middle tree and Chosen with aura and therefore 100% uptime ;)
M4 and a spec point. Not even remotely comparable. Anyone remember the DoK heal debuff nerf? Why was that? For those saying "math" we all know RoR/War math = almost always especially on AoE
-= Agony =-

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