Official Pie Week Feedback thread

[Caduceus]

Balance is a very fragile construct in this game. Introducing new liniments or consumeables that can only be aquired in an event will most likely harm specific areas of the game:

• small scale pvp -- Here you'd always want the best possible liniments and consumeables - not having them on the other hand can cost you a victory over your enemies. I do like the idea of new liniments, don't get me wrong. But having a liniment with +5 % Healcrit, 60 Wounds is just way way more superior than 50 Healpower 60 Wounds. Consumeables like "Haakt" which we've seen in the prior event are simply broken.

• overall ingame economy -- People selling regular consumeables are doomed to sit out events like this or are even forced to take out the offer as they won't sell for quite a long time. While trades are allowed and even encouraged, players that already have a fortune or a lot of time can buy/grind important ingredients like Oak Wood in this event and can get even richer by selling these rare liniments at a later time or stash a lifetime supply.

• elitist gaming encouraged -- Events like this are the times when veterans that usually don't play return back to the game to grind event scenarios in premades- forcing PUGs, in order to finish event influence quests, into a pretty harsh and frustrating game experience while facing them. Of course one could/would say they could create a party on their own but let's face it - you can't compensate years of experience in this game just by building a "premade" yourself that consists out of other pugs. I am pretty convinced that events are - despite raising the overall population for a little time- harming the aquisition of entirely new players.

I view the first and second points as positives, actually.


Giving players extra incentive to get some limited edition consumables to give them an edge in certain situations. This is precisely what makes it engaging for veteran players, gives them a reason to play and a feeling of progression or reward. Of course this should always be within certain bounds, but in my opinion the Kislev and Pie Week events did this quite well. I would argue for making them all tradeable, though. That way there may develop a market for them and players who missed out are able to catch up by spending their gold on the AH.


In terms of economy, I can assure you there hasn't been a single event in which new players could have made more gold than this one, so I disagree that it had a negative impact. This was people's chance to empty the pockets of "elite" players, because I haven't seen a gold sink as great as this one before and it's a good thing - the game needs more.


Lastly, premade vs. pug and the painful new player experience it can bring is a persistent problem in RoR. However, I disagree the root cause has anything to do with the seasonal events.

[franzjaeger]

I liked the concept of gathering ingredients from PvP and RvR, and the event currency as well. Farming for pies and making them was fun, 1 hour liniments was awesome. The event area was nicely done. Rewards were pretty cool.

As for the negatives; I didn't see the point in not knowing what the different kind of pies would turn into in terms of stats on liniments. First time making a new pie, sure, but after that the stats should be displayed for each pie you've made once.

I don't really like how centered it was around scenarios. I'd rather lock 5 zones than win 5 scenarios lol. Not only because of how premades make scenarios a one-sided stomp when you're solo queuing but also because the queue times are ass some nights. Playing the same scenario over and over trying to get a win becomes boring fast too.

[Aluviya]

Balance is a very fragile construct in this game. Introducing new liniments or consumeables that can only be aquired in an event will most likely harm specific areas of the game:

• small scale pvp -- Here you'd always want the best possible liniments and consumeables - not having them on the other hand can cost you a victory over your enemies. I do like the idea of new liniments, don't get me wrong. But having a liniment with +5 % Healcrit, 60 Wounds is just way way more superior than 50 Healpower 60 Wounds. Consumeables like "Haakt" which we've seen in the prior event are simply broken.

• overall ingame economy -- People selling regular consumeables are doomed to sit out events like this or are even forced to take out the offer as they won't sell for quite a long time. While trades are allowed and even encouraged, players that already have a fortune or a lot of time can buy/grind important ingredients like Oak Wood in this event and can get even richer by selling these rare liniments at a later time or stash a lifetime supply.

• elitist gaming encouraged -- Events like this are the times when veterans that usually don't play return back to the game to grind event scenarios in premades- forcing PUGs, in order to finish event influence quests, into a pretty harsh and frustrating game experience while facing them. Of course one could/would say they could create a party on their own but let's face it - you can't compensate years of experience in this game just by building a "premade" yourself that consists out of other pugs. I am pretty convinced that events are - despite raising the overall population for a little time- harming the aquisition of entirely new players.

I view the first and second points as positives, actually.


Giving players extra incentive to get some limited edition consumables to give them an edge in certain situations. This is precisely what makes it engaging for veteran players, gives them a reason to play and a feeling of progression or reward. Of course this should always be within certain bounds, but in my opinion the Kislev and Pie Week events did this quite well. I would argue for making them all tradeable, though. That way there may develop a market for them and players who missed out are able to catch up by spending their gold on the AH.


In terms of economy, I can assure you there hasn't been a single event in which new players could have made more gold than this one, so I disagree that it had a negative impact. This was people's chance to empty the pockets of "elite" players, because I haven't seen a gold sink as great as this one before and it's a good thing - the game needs more.


Lastly, premade vs. pug and the painful new player experience it can bring is a persistent problem in RoR. However, I disagree the root cause has anything to do with the seasonal events.

To your first argument: "edge in certain situations" is simply translating to a not fair match in a ranked solo game or group ranked. So I am not sure what you are trying to hint there but its a fact that there can simply not be any fair match with consumeables like Haakt if one has stashed a lot of them.

To your 2nd argument: I do agree that everyone was able to aquire a lot of gold - true. But we are talking about the issue that the really wealthy players have a way way higher buying power. I ended up having more than 3k liniments a supply for almost 1/3 of a year if played 24/7 (and I am by definition not "wealthy").

To your 3rd argument: I agree this issue is not event exclusive however it is the events bringing back players to "prove them" that the game is still fun and worth playing. In my opinion there is a factual correlation between events and aqusition of new and older players. However for the new players the environment that they have to face in the events can be very harsh and discouraging.

[Akalukz]

---
1. What did you like most about the event? New, it was new content, i liked the 60 min timer, i liked the new liniments. The pvp quest line was well done, T1 portion was minimal. One of the few times I have seen Talabac Dam Scenario actually beinb played, like people seemed to want to "win"

2. Any things you didn't like, or found too difficult?
I liked the apple bobbing, but was rather frustrating not knowing why there were several different pools, not knowing what the rewards were from each, and not knowing if there were any "rules" Eating XX pies was quite a bit I thought so didn't really attempt (waste of resources) Shiliings should have been account-wide similar to expedition resources.

3. Are there any event specifics you'd like to see updated or changed if Pie Week returns next year?

After the event, pies should switch to 30 min timer same as other liniments. Potions (armor etc) should have been x 2 similar to crafting.


---

[Fenris78]

But having a liniment with +5 % Healcrit, 60 Wounds is just way way more superior than 50 Healpower 60 Wounds. Consumeables like "Haakt" which we've seen in the prior event are simply broken.

5% heal crit is marginally better for healers who rely on crits to proc tactics (RP, some builds on WP), but overall 5% heal crit is strictly the same as 50 healpower, on average. I can add in this game where RNG is not consistent at all, overall it's better to have a constant 50 healpower bonus than a random 5% crit chance, given by healers dont have "+% heal crit value" effect, unlike dps.

Haakt is arguably a good bonus, but since those consumable can be stacked with potions, they are by definition better. Just needed an awful lot of playtime to buy them in sufficent quantity, let alone for a "lifetime" stockpile... :p

But yes, if people are selling stuff like that, anybody with enough gold could potentially buy them all and be "better" from other. Although the new effects are not stacking with most bonuses (skills and procs wont stack, for example parry/block chances), that will not make such a difference in fight, as so few difference a stat/armor pot will not make 90% of the time.

Taking example by ranked scene liniment efficiency is mostly irrelevant when ranked is inexistant for the time being.

[Aluviya]

But having a liniment with +5 % Healcrit, 60 Wounds is just way way more superior than 50 Healpower 60 Wounds. Consumeables like "Haakt" which we've seen in the prior event are simply broken.

5% heal crit is marginally better for healers who rely on crits to proc tactics (RP, some builds on WP), but overall 5% heal crit is strictly the same as 50 healpower, on average. I can add in this game where RNG is not consistent at all, overall it's better to have a constant 50 healpower bonus than a random 5% crit chance, given by healers dont have "+% heal crit value" effect, unlike dps.

Haakt is arguably a good bonus, but since those consumable can be stacked with potions, they are by definition better. Just needed an awful lot of playtime to buy them in sufficent quantity, let alone for a "lifetime" stockpile... :p

But yes, if people are selling stuff like that, anybody with enough gold could potentially buy them all and be "better" from other. Although the new effects are not stacking with most bonuses (skills and procs wont stack, for example parry/block chances), that will not make such a difference in fight, as so few difference a stat/armor pot will not make 90% of the time.

Taking example by ranked scene liniment efficiency is mostly irrelevant when ranked is inexistant for the time being.

It's not the same as you have you've already explained yourself due to proc tactics. Furthermore the scaling of heals on Willpower and Healing Power is pretty poor on a lot of spells that have no or less cast time. In every case you see actually the gains on healing again only if you hit critically with the spell. If 5% Healcrit and 50 Healpower were translating to the "almost the same" why is a soulstone talisman translating from +4 crit vs 54 of the corresponding power type - seems likely not well balanced or inconsistent according to your "marginality" ?!

[Caduceus]

To your first argument: "edge in certain situations" is simply translating to a not fair match in a ranked solo game or group ranked. So I am not sure what you are trying to hint there but its a fact that there can simply not be any fair match with consumeables like Haakt if one has stashed a lot of them.

To your 2nd argument: I do agree that everyone was able to aquire a lot of gold - true. But we are talking about the issue that the really wealthy players have a way way higher buying power. I ended up having more than 3k liniments a supply for almost 1/3 of a year if played 24/7 (and I am by definition not "wealthy").

To your 3rd argument: I agree this issue is not event exclusive however it is the events bringing back players to "prove them" that the game is still fun and worth playing. In my opinion there is a factual correlation between events and aqusition of new and older players. However for the new players the environment that they have to face in the events can be very harsh and discouraging.

Maybe this issue needs to be resolved for Ranked specifically. I'll agree that in this context it is problematic people can gather up powerful, exclusive buffs. That doesn't fit in a game-mode that is supposed to be fair and competitive.
But I'd hate to see these exclusive consumables disappear for the sake of a game mode that hardly anyone plays. Better to change it so that certain buff items cannot be used in Ranked.


If people want to spend thousands of gold on these exclusive liniments (like I did ) let them. The game lacks gold sinks. This was a great one. Maybe it needs more. Ultimately players who spend months or even years gathering gold should get to spend it on nice things, no? It has always felt a bit weird I had stockpiled all this gold and had nothing to spend it on. So, more gold sinks please! Events are perfect for it.


And yes, I agree. For new players these stacked scenarios are a huge obstacle. There's no two ways about it.


I'll leave it at that, to avoid derailing the thread.

[Detangler]

I really wanted a chef's hat. Not some silly cloak that will be covered by my guild emblem. A chef's hat. White, comically tall, like that guy from Sesame Street.

Next year, give us a chef's hat!!

[Bobbiom]

1 hour liniments is great and the 60 int/ballistic 10ft range pies was a nice introduction.

[Telther]

The sc requirements isn’t as bad as everyone is making it out to be, I finished it pugging before guildies logged on.