Recent Topics

Ads

Order side race speed boost?

Ironbreaker, Engineer, Slayer, Runepriest
Forum rules
Before posting on this forum, be sure to read the Terms of Use
Your topic MUST start with your class name between hooks (IE : [Shaman] blablabla)
lumpi33
Posts: 422

Re: Order side race speed boost?

Post#11 » Tue Feb 07, 2023 8:38 am

What doesn't make sense to me is that we have the better speed buffs and the better pulls all on one side. It would make more sense to give one side the speed and the other the pulls or both to both. I also don't get why SHs get the free run away tactic AND the free run away ability. They shouldn't have both.

I mean, look at the killboard. Salao: 822 kills, 2 deaths. Good SHs with healing and these two run away abilities will always get away. It is op without a doubt.

The run away tactic overall is far too good when compared to the quick escape renown ability.
Quick escape: 45 renown points, 5% chance, 10s, 35% boost, breaks on abilities
Run away: free, 25% chance, 5s (10s icd), 30% boost, does not break on abilities
It's the 25% chance and the not breaking on abilities that makes it superior to everything else for kiting, charging or suviving.

Order had the ranged knock down and WL pouncing to counter the running but now mSH and WEs have pouncing too and SHs have the ranged knock down as well. WL pouncing range also got nerfed. So yeah, it's kinda out of balance.
Last edited by lumpi33 on Tue Feb 07, 2023 8:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

Ads
Sofong
Posts: 554

Re: Order side race speed boost?

Post#12 » Tue Feb 07, 2023 8:47 am

omg yeah..... theres 1 or 2 sh/shaman we cant kill in less than 5s please buff us.

lumpi33
Posts: 422

Re: Order side race speed boost?

Post#13 » Tue Feb 07, 2023 8:52 am

Sofong wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 8:47 am omg yeah..... theres 1 or 2 sh/shaman we cant kill in less than 5s please buff us.
It's more than two. For good heal shamans you need an army to stop them from getting away. They can do everything on the run. Not like AMs that need to stop for their heal channel. Compare that run away tactic and auto detaunt tactic to the order elves centuries of training dot nobody is using. You need a reality check if you think that is fair in any way.

Kinglouie
Posts: 3

Re: Order side race speed boost?

Post#14 » Wed Feb 08, 2023 9:55 am

You wanna talk about dwarfs 50% less KD-time tactic? 😒
Its nearly impossible to kill a proper RP in a 6vs6 fight.
Choppas die in KD cause of red Stance, Slayers not.

Ashoris
Posts: 346

Re: Order side race speed boost?

Post#15 » Wed Feb 08, 2023 5:40 pm

Kinglouie wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 9:55 am You wanna talk about dwarfs 50% less KD-time tactic? 😒
Its nearly impossible to kill a proper RP in a 6vs6 fight.
Choppas die in KD cause of red Stance, Slayers not.

no, but what he meant is that the original game had a lot of counter mechanics that for some strange reason all got removed ... he did not even mentioned the Snare nerf on WL :)

and due to the custom changes some classes are pretty much the kings of solo/smallman roam survaivability ... without even have to fear some counter abilities that also only exist in their realm.

You can prevent death on destru side way better than order side rn - due to speed/kite/pounce/pull mechanics distribution in the realms.
that does not say anything about realmbalance only about solo/smallscale survivability.
Warhammer Return of Reckoning
Verey / Ashoris / Devoras

WaR -dead-
Erengrad - Order - Frostbringer - Devoras

User avatar
wachlarz
Posts: 798

Re: Order side race speed boost?

Post#16 » Wed Feb 08, 2023 6:29 pm

Ashoris wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 5:40 pm
Kinglouie wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 9:55 am You wanna talk about dwarfs 50% less KD-time tactic? 😒
Its nearly impossible to kill a proper RP in a 6vs6 fight.
Choppas die in KD cause of red Stance, Slayers not.

no, but what he meant is that the original game had a lot of counter mechanics that for some strange reason all got removed ... he did not even mentioned the Snare nerf on WL :)

and due to the custom changes some classes are pretty much the kings of solo/smallman roam survaivability ... without even have to fear some counter abilities that also only exist in their realm.

You can prevent death on destru side way better than order side rn - due to speed/kite/pounce/pull mechanics distribution in the realms.
that does not say anything about realmbalance only about solo/smallscale survivability.
if U need kite then U are on weaker side.

User avatar
Valfaros
Posts: 258

Re: Order side race speed boost?

Post#17 » Thu Feb 09, 2023 9:13 am

lumpi33 wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 8:38 am What doesn't make sense to me is that we have the better speed buffs and the better pulls all on one side. It would make more sense to give one side the speed and the other the pulls or both to both. I also don't get why SHs get the free run away tactic AND the free run away ability. They shouldn't have both.

I mean, look at the killboard. Salao: 822 kills, 2 deaths. Good SHs with healing and these two run away abilities will always get away. It is op without a doubt.

The run away tactic overall is far too good when compared to the quick escape renown ability.
Quick escape: 45 renown points, 5% chance, 10s, 35% boost, breaks on abilities
Run away: free, 25% chance, 5s (10s icd), 30% boost, does not break on abilities
It's the 25% chance and the not breaking on abilities that makes it superior to everything else for kiting, charging or suviving.

Order had the ranged knock down and WL pouncing to counter the running but now mSH and WEs have pouncing too and SHs have the ranged knock down as well. WL pouncing range also got nerfed. So yeah, it's kinda out of balance.

Really? Oh yes lets look at the killboard of a single individual. That makes sense.....

Now and if we average all of them.

https://imgur.com/a/cnYBDbw

Oh looks like if we sort for solokills guess what, almost every single order class runs better, some of them by miles. Uh yeah a little bit sh seems to deal better alone. And also magus. Unfair, should be nerfed! Buff WL...

To be fair if we sort for group kills sh does in fact run quite a bit better than sw. I think the main problem here is the kiting build on sh is alot more viable and played than on sw, where most play the standing still build which is a really good target. However, the % of good sh running run away in grouped setting might be close to 0. It certainly isn't what makes sh so strong.

Ashoris wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 5:40 pm
Kinglouie wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 9:55 am You wanna talk about dwarfs 50% less KD-time tactic? 😒
Its nearly impossible to kill a proper RP in a 6vs6 fight.
Choppas die in KD cause of red Stance, Slayers not.

no, but what he meant is that the original game had a lot of counter mechanics that for some strange reason all got removed ... he did not even mentioned the Snare nerf on WL :)

and due to the custom changes some classes are pretty much the kings of solo/smallman roam survaivability ... without even have to fear some counter abilities that also only exist in their realm.

You can prevent death on destru side way better than order side rn - due to speed/kite/pounce/pull mechanics distribution in the realms.
that does not say anything about realmbalance only about solo/smallscale survivability.
Yes and WL was a joke on live compared to what he dishes out here. Yeah give me live wl back, I'd take that any day compared to this abbomination that has among the lowest ttk.

Prevent death is easier on destro really? Why because 2 classes have run away...really? If we look at those classes compare assists and deaths and compare it to their counter on order this isn't true. Shaman dies way more often while sh and sw contribute roughly to the same amount of kills before they die.

And yet order is crying about run away....amazing.

rejndjer
Suspended
Posts: 431

Re: Order side race speed boost?

Post#18 » Thu Feb 09, 2023 10:13 am

CountTalabecland wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 11:49 pm I’ve played around with the SWtactic and it seems like pure garbage.

Needing to switch out of the stance you want every 5 seconds seems like a handicap on actually doing anything useful.

Likewise, there is a weird gap in the boost as you switch stances so the boost isn’t 100% consistent. Its more like 90% uptime.

Tldr doesn’t seem nearly as good as the goblins speed boost and SW is a poor class otherwise so don’t play SW hoping to kite destro easily
rr78 SW here. guerilla tactics (+25ms% and reduce ap cost on stance switch for 5 seconds) is strongest tactic we have. once you get used to it, you'll never want to play SW without it again. shitty thing about it is that you cannot switch stances while channeling an ability. im not sure if that's "working as intended", but imo it shouldn't be if stance cooldowns already are separated from GCDs. oh and, yes that gap you mentioned sucks as well. i play main skirmish off assault specc. scout is complete garbage, should be deleted.

Ads
Ashoris
Posts: 346

Re: Order side race speed boost?

Post#19 » Thu Feb 09, 2023 10:22 am

Valfaros wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 9:13 am
Ashoris wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 5:40 pm no, but what he meant is that the original game had a lot of counter mechanics that for some strange reason all got removed ... he did not even mentioned the Snare nerf on WL :)

and due to the custom changes some classes are pretty much the kings of solo/smallman roam survaivability ... without even have to fear some counter abilities that also only exist in their realm.

You can prevent death on destru side way better than order side rn - due to speed/kite/pounce/pull mechanics distribution in the realms.
that does not say anything about realmbalance only about solo/smallscale survivability.
Yes and WL was a joke on live compared to what he dishes out here. Yeah give me live wl back, I'd take that any day compared to this abbomination that has among the lowest ttk.

Prevent death is easier on destro really? Why because 2 classes have run away...really? If we look at those classes compare assists and deaths and compare it to their counter on order this isn't true. Shaman dies way more often while sh and sw contribute roughly to the same amount of kills before they die.

And yet order is crying about run away....amazing.
1st of all i wasnt crying but tried to focus on the initial topic and dont derail the thread to a toptal different topic - i also wrote that the outcome is limited to a different playstyle ....

you on the other hand shortend my statement by ignoring the majority of what was written before. Why ? - havent read the thread ? willfully ignore the information ? or just because otherwise you really had to think about it ?

Destru has more speed Procs ... not only git tactics but also 2 tank classes (1 of them the main tank class for PvP) instead of 1.
Destru has not only more but also better Pulls ... (2 Pulls on charge classes, speed boost on pull skill not one destru pull is killable on the way to the target :) )
Destru has the same amount of pounce like skills than order on this server.

Decent Players simply have it easier to survive (on destru side) and prevent escape (destru side) than on Order side.

thats not gamebreaking as i mentioned before, and not crying - but a simple observation. Its one of the reasons why destru "Gank groups" or smallman raoming are working better than on order side ... better survivability ... less chance to get pulled (in fact you can prevent order pull easily not so much vice versa).
This makes a difference on how the game feels for the majority of people without exactly knowing why.
Warhammer Return of Reckoning
Verey / Ashoris / Devoras

WaR -dead-
Erengrad - Order - Frostbringer - Devoras

User avatar
Valfaros
Posts: 258

Re: Order side race speed boost?

Post#20 » Thu Feb 09, 2023 11:31 am

Ashoris wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 10:22 am
1st of all i wasnt crying but tried to focus on the initial topic and dont derail the thread to a toptal different topic - i also wrote that the outcome is limited to a different playstyle ....

you on the other hand shortend my statement by ignoring the majority of what was written before. Why ? - havent read the thread ? willfully ignore the information ? or just because otherwise you really had to think about it ?

Destru has more speed Procs ... not only git tactics but also 2 tank classes (1 of them the main tank class for PvP) instead of 1.
Destru has not only more but also better Pulls ... (2 Pulls on charge classes, speed boost on pull skill not one destru pull is killable on the way to the target :) )
Destru has the same amount of pounce like skills than order on this server.

Decent Players simply have it easier to survive (on destru side) and prevent escape (destru side) than on Order side.

thats not gamebreaking as i mentioned before, and not crying - but a simple observation. Its one of the reasons why destru "Gank groups" or smallman raoming are working better than on order side ... better survivability ... less chance to get pulled (in fact you can prevent order pull easily not so much vice versa).
This makes a difference on how the game feels for the majority of people without exactly knowing why.
Yeah and neither was I singling you out crying about run away or did I? Yeah I find it laughable that people single out a realm difference and then try to mute all other differences that are around. Especially now that stats are around over several weeks which shows the trend would suggest the opposite. How is presenting the data somehow derailing the topic. You say for some strange reason counter mechanics got removed but the reason is not strange at all. The reason is very simple, you compare wl to live and find that thing is pure terror on ror and required some tuning down and I think it still does.

Better pulls because you can kill the pet? The pet is increadibly fast at the enemy can switch targets within the last moment and doesn't give you a visual tell when it's gonna pull. Killing it every single time when it is summoned isn't really feasible either. It further can get immune to any kind of cc with LF and can cc you. Can't do that on mara. I agree killing a mara is certainly more difficult than the pet but you know what you also can do is use a interrupt. Ever heared of that odd skill, taunt, no? Maybe rkd that last longer and have larger ranges on order and available on more classes? Also no? Well I guess there is just no way to stop the pull...

Agreed with gtdc, really unfair. Yes remove it give it rampage fix the difference. I think we are all for it then. I hate this skill on destro too.

Then the talk about the tanks...really how many leaps do our tanks have again? Was it 0. Ah yes it was wasn't it? Pretty fair I'd say, especially since there is very little use of SE. But you calling it out as somehow an advantage is really odd.

Decent players have it easier? This talk is useless, you know that guy he does really well kinda talk. How can you look at the numbers and you are like yeah but decent players have it better. Really, so you think order players are in general just better to explain the numbers. Please I welcome you to play on destro awhile and tell me it's easier.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests